Q12543 wrote:On the aggregate, Wiggins hasn't improved his efficiency overall because he's traded off better outside shooting for fewer attempts at the rim (and also fewer trips to the foul line). However, he has absolutely improved as an outside shooter steadily.
Here is his progression from rookie, 2nd, and 3rd year:
The great news is that he is on a nice linear upward trajectory with his outside shooting from various distances. His current percentages aren't great, but they are solid. The problem is that he still takes too many shots from the 10 feet to < 3-pt range. A lot of these are tough contested mid-range turnarounds and pull up long 2's off the dribble. I'm not saying these shots shouldn't be in his arsenal, but right now he relies on them too much.
The ingredients are there for greatness on the offensive side of the ball. And when you delve deeper into the details, there are signs of tangible improvement. My frustration with him tends to be on all the other stuff, because I do see an eventual light at the end of the tunnel offensively.
In bold... do you have the volume numbers too?
Because if he's taking more 16 - 23 foot shots at the expense of closer shots... that's a very serious concern. Both with Wiggins and Thibs' organization.
So many other teams have already figured out it's the most inefficient shot in basketball. When will the Wolves?
Abe. as a percentage of shots, he's taking 26% of his shots on "long 2's" (16 feet to < 3). That compares to about 23 and 24%, respectively, in his first two seasons. At the same time, he's ramped up his volume of 3's, which now make up 21% of his shot attempts vs. 11% his rookie year and 15% last year.
Unfortunately, this all comes at the expense of attempts from 0-3 feet, which have gone down from 31% and 32% in Year 1 & 2 to 26% this year. The result is fewer layups and free throws.
If he had exchanged more 3's for fewer long 2's and kept everything else the same, I'd be fine. Instead, he exchanged more 3's for fewer attempts at the rim, while still taking a lot of bad mid-range and long 2s. It's why he's one of the least efficient high scoring wings in the NBA.
The stats clearly indicate no overall improvement so far over last season. And they arguably show some regression. Overall, a mixed bag but not an generally positive progression. I like the DeRozan comparison as one that can give us hope. But what concerns me is that, amidst the mixed stats that show flat or regressive development, are Andrew's persistent motor issues that date back to college. The fact that his lack of consistent intensity or a high-drive motor persists nearly half-way into his 3rd season troubles me and makes me wonder how much improvement we'll ultimately see from him over the long haul.
What I see from Wiggins in his shot selection is a guy working more specifically on his outside shooting game. Again I think Wiggins is kinda strategic in what he does. Wiggins general strength is being able to play in the post and attack the rim. Will he always be able to do that? To some extent yes. Being able to work on a perimeter game will make him a tougher cover and also make it easier for him to become a guy that can create for others. I don't think he has actually become less aggressive because he is being passive I think it's a more conscience decision although there are times when he has been unsuccessful going to the baker and he has drawn back but that makes sense. In some ways Wiggins reminds me a little bit of Kobe in how he looks to take some long shots. Obviously being compared to Kobe is lofty...and also not great. Kobe was also a master of footwork and Wiggins does have some advanced moves he has obviously worked on. You can see he has an idea of what he is trying to do to score on various possessions that end in a jumper of some sort. His ball handling still needs work but I can see it's clearly improved.
It's interesting what Thibs has let him work on and the role as a ball handler he has put him in. Wiggins clearly has talent and it's interesting to watch his progression. Lavine is a fluid player. Wiggins is a crazy athlete that plays actually really mechanical to an odd extent. Towns is a bit of a mix between both but plays with more passion than either which is good and a bit of a detriment at times. Wiggins style is quite strange but I think there are some benefits. Eventually he will cut loose to some extent but he will probably have to develop his skills on both sides of the ball and I also think having the same coaching staff will probably help that too based on some of the stuff Sam has said about him.
Good points, Monster. The only thing I'd say is that LaVine plays with a lot of passion at least close to KAT's level. Can't say the same thing about Wiggins - at least not on anything approaching a consistent basis.
Their games aside, the biggest difference between LaVine and Wiggins is that I just FEEL like the former has a burning desire to be a star and the latter is alright with being "okay." I think you can see it in their play. I think it's evident by how they portray themselves. Could I be wrong? Absolutely, I could, but I'm not as confident in Wiggins as I'd like to be, and not nearly as confident in him as others here are. That's an upsetting feeling.
I can see a statistical argument for stalling but not regressing for Wiggins. I see a slight improvement in the offensive numbers and continued improvement on D. The most notable statistical regression is KAT this year, seconded by Rubio.
monsterpile wrote:What I see from Wiggins in his shot selection is a guy working more specifically on his outside shooting game. Again I think Wiggins is kinda strategic in what he does. Wiggins general strength is being able to play in the post and attack the rim. Will he always be able to do that? To some extent yes. Being able to work on a perimeter game will make him a tougher cover and also make it easier for him to become a guy that can create for others. I don't think he has actually become less aggressive because he is being passive I think it's a more conscience decision although there are times when he has been unsuccessful going to the baker and he has drawn back but that makes sense. In some ways Wiggins reminds me a little bit of Kobe in how he looks to take some long shots. Obviously being compared to Kobe is lofty...and also not great. Kobe was also a master of footwork and Wiggins does have some advanced moves he has obviously worked on. You can see he has an idea of what he is trying to do to score on various possessions that end in a jumper of some sort. His ball handling still needs work but I can see it's clearly improved.
It's interesting what Thibs has let him work on and the role as a ball handler he has put him in. Wiggins clearly has talent and it's interesting to watch his progression. Lavine is a fluid player. Wiggins is a crazy athlete that plays actually really mechanical to an odd extent. Towns is a bit of a mix between both but plays with more passion than either which is good and a bit of a detriment at times. Wiggins style is quite strange but I think there are some benefits. Eventually he will cut loose to some extent but he will probably have to develop his skills on both sides of the ball and I also think having the same coaching staff will probably help that too based on some of the stuff Sam has said about him.
I see a guy taking dumb shots. Essentially... stay out of the 16 - 23 ft zone as much as possible.
He's a young guy who's playing an antiquated game when he takes them.
monsterpile wrote:What I see from Wiggins in his shot selection is a guy working more specifically on his outside shooting game. Again I think Wiggins is kinda strategic in what he does. Wiggins general strength is being able to play in the post and attack the rim. Will he always be able to do that? To some extent yes. Being able to work on a perimeter game will make him a tougher cover and also make it easier for him to become a guy that can create for others. I don't think he has actually become less aggressive because he is being passive I think it's a more conscience decision although there are times when he has been unsuccessful going to the baker and he has drawn back but that makes sense. In some ways Wiggins reminds me a little bit of Kobe in how he looks to take some long shots. Obviously being compared to Kobe is lofty...and also not great. Kobe was also a master of footwork and Wiggins does have some advanced moves he has obviously worked on. You can see he has an idea of what he is trying to do to score on various possessions that end in a jumper of some sort. His ball handling still needs work but I can see it's clearly improved.
It's interesting what Thibs has let him work on and the role as a ball handler he has put him in. Wiggins clearly has talent and it's interesting to watch his progression. Lavine is a fluid player. Wiggins is a crazy athlete that plays actually really mechanical to an odd extent. Towns is a bit of a mix between both but plays with more passion than either which is good and a bit of a detriment at times. Wiggins style is quite strange but I think there are some benefits. Eventually he will cut loose to some extent but he will probably have to develop his skills on both sides of the ball and I also think having the same coaching staff will probably help that too based on some of the stuff Sam has said about him.
I see a guy taking dumb shots. Essentially... stay out of the 16 - 23 ft zone as much as possible.
He's a young guy who's playing an antiquated game when he takes them.
To be fair ( :) ), sometimes that's all the defense gives him. I think it's difficult to completely take that shot out of his game if guys are playing him for the drive. But, I think he's definitely "settled" too often when in fact he could have driven hard to the hoop. He needs to keep being aggressive going to the rim. Not only will it lead to more trips to the line, but it will also lead to more kick-out opportunities for open 3's.
monsterpile wrote:What I see from Wiggins in his shot selection is a guy working more specifically on his outside shooting game. Again I think Wiggins is kinda strategic in what he does. Wiggins general strength is being able to play in the post and attack the rim. Will he always be able to do that? To some extent yes. Being able to work on a perimeter game will make him a tougher cover and also make it easier for him to become a guy that can create for others. I don't think he has actually become less aggressive because he is being passive I think it's a more conscience decision although there are times when he has been unsuccessful going to the baker and he has drawn back but that makes sense. In some ways Wiggins reminds me a little bit of Kobe in how he looks to take some long shots. Obviously being compared to Kobe is lofty...and also not great. Kobe was also a master of footwork and Wiggins does have some advanced moves he has obviously worked on. You can see he has an idea of what he is trying to do to score on various possessions that end in a jumper of some sort. His ball handling still needs work but I can see it's clearly improved.
It's interesting what Thibs has let him work on and the role as a ball handler he has put him in. Wiggins clearly has talent and it's interesting to watch his progression. Lavine is a fluid player. Wiggins is a crazy athlete that plays actually really mechanical to an odd extent. Towns is a bit of a mix between both but plays with more passion than either which is good and a bit of a detriment at times. Wiggins style is quite strange but I think there are some benefits. Eventually he will cut loose to some extent but he will probably have to develop his skills on both sides of the ball and I also think having the same coaching staff will probably help that too based on some of the stuff Sam has said about him.
I see a guy taking dumb shots. Essentially... stay out of the 16 - 23 ft zone as much as possible.
He's a young guy who's playing an antiquated game when he takes them.
To be fair ( :) ), sometimes that's all the defense gives him. I think it's difficult to completely take that shot out of his game if guys are playing him for the drive. But, I think he's definitely "settled" too often when in fact he could have driven hard to the hoop. He needs to keep being aggressive going to the rim. Not only will it lead to more trips to the line, but it will also lead to more kick-out opportunities for open 3's.
Sure. It's not like he can't take them at all. It's just not feasible.
But you hit the nail on the head when you say he "settles" for that shot.
monsterpile wrote:What I see from Wiggins in his shot selection is a guy working more specifically on his outside shooting game. Again I think Wiggins is kinda strategic in what he does. Wiggins general strength is being able to play in the post and attack the rim. Will he always be able to do that? To some extent yes. Being able to work on a perimeter game will make him a tougher cover and also make it easier for him to become a guy that can create for others. I don't think he has actually become less aggressive because he is being passive I think it's a more conscience decision although there are times when he has been unsuccessful going to the baker and he has drawn back but that makes sense. In some ways Wiggins reminds me a little bit of Kobe in how he looks to take some long shots. Obviously being compared to Kobe is lofty...and also not great. Kobe was also a master of footwork and Wiggins does have some advanced moves he has obviously worked on. You can see he has an idea of what he is trying to do to score on various possessions that end in a jumper of some sort. His ball handling still needs work but I can see it's clearly improved.
It's interesting what Thibs has let him work on and the role as a ball handler he has put him in. Wiggins clearly has talent and it's interesting to watch his progression. Lavine is a fluid player. Wiggins is a crazy athlete that plays actually really mechanical to an odd extent. Towns is a bit of a mix between both but plays with more passion than either which is good and a bit of a detriment at times. Wiggins style is quite strange but I think there are some benefits. Eventually he will cut loose to some extent but he will probably have to develop his skills on both sides of the ball and I also think having the same coaching staff will probably help that too based on some of the stuff Sam has said about him.
I see a guy taking dumb shots. Essentially... stay out of the 16 - 23 ft zone as much as possible.
He's a young guy who's playing an antiquated game when he takes them.
To be fair ( :) ), sometimes that's all the defense gives him. I think it's difficult to completely take that shot out of his game if guys are playing him for the drive. But, I think he's definitely "settled" too often when in fact he could have driven hard to the hoop. He needs to keep being aggressive going to the rim. Not only will it lead to more trips to the line, but it will also lead to more kick-out opportunities for open 3's.
Sure. It's not like he can't take them at all. It's just not feasible.
But you hit the nail on the head when you say he "settles" for that shot.
I think it's a combo of him taking shots he is working on...taking some of those shots that are poor shots and...settling. I agree he needs to be more aggressive attacking at times. I don't want to sound like so am making excuses for Wiggins but I think the guys has ability or the tough skills to score all over the court more so that last year and now he is struggling to some extent to put it together. Like I said at times he is so mechanical and probably thinks too much. Again it's sort of the opposite to Lavine who has the skills and can sorta just go play but had to get the mental aspect. Wiggins has some skills he has to build up and at some point just play.
Why should we be encouraged about his game? He has had 3 coaches and all 3 guys have given him all kinds of opportunities. My guess is not only is he talented but he works hard.
