have fans overvalued the talent of...

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

They may play a Lil better, but the team still loses and I can't think of one player that's having a good year. Except for Shabbaz . Isnt the pg supposed to make players around him better? Who's gotten better?

Isn't a point guard's job to make the team play better? We're 7-13 with Rubio vs. 7-36 without him.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

They may play a Lil better, but the team still loses and I can't think of one player that's having a good year. Except for Shabbaz . Isnt the pg supposed to make players around him better? Who's gotten better?

Ricky can't literally develop players. Are you serious with that statement? There is no question that everyone just plays better with Ricky on the court. The offense runs better and the defense gets an upgrade at the point of attack so teams can't just get past our other matador defenders.

Ricky can't stay in front of a point guard to save his life. Speaking of matadors. He's an opportunistic defender with quick hands but he can't stay in front of anyone.

Now you are just spewing B.S.

[Papalrep]

TRKO -- Rubio will never shoot great. Neither did Jason Kidd. Rubio probably will never be a superstar, but he can definitely be a great piece on a winning team. He is a facilitator. He needs better guys to facilitate to.

AMEN

[Porckchop]

Ricky will always be a player that every Wolves fan makes excuses for. I'm still not sure why . Considering how we all tear down every other player . KG included.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Ricky will always be a player that every Wolves fan makes excuses for. I'm still not sure why . Considering how we all tear down every other player . KG included.

Kind of related... I remember two arguments I had on here...

Some of our members thought Rubio was better than Irving. Others thought he was better than Westbrook. I like Rubio. A lot. He's a lot of fun to watch. But... ummmm... no.

[mrhockey89]

Pork, I think you're sorta dismissing the fact that the fact that the Wolves are one of the youngest teams in the NBA, and they're giving major minutes to the young guys. When LaVine, Wiggins, and Payne are on the court together, that's 3 rookies...then add the vast experience of Dieng...and let's throw in Shabazz for fun.

If half your team rotation are rookies or second year players, you're not going to be .500+. Anything short of LeBron couldn't pull this group into a .500 club.

With that said, Ricky had a terrible game the other day, but he's still a significant contributor to the Wolves, and the team leader.

[Porckchop]

Pork, I think you're sorta dismissing the fact that the fact that the Wolves are one of the youngest teams in the NBA, and they're giving major minutes to the young guys. When LaVine, Wiggins, and Payne are on the court together, that's 3 rookies...then add the vast experience of Dieng...and let's throw in Shabazz for fun.

If half your team rotation are rookies or second year players, you're not going to be .500+. Anything short of LeBron couldn't pull this group into a .500 club.

With that said, Ricky had a terrible game the other day, but he's still a significant contributor to the Wolves, and the team leader.

.

If u r a team leader and significant contributor shouldn't u shoulder blame for the losses? Every other good player in this league has too . That's how it works.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Very good point Hockey. If anything, fans overvalue the impact of rookies and 2nd year players. Even Wiggins had a miserable start, going 20+ games before hitting his stride. And even now, he still has a "meh" performance on a regular basis. LaVine, Bennett, and Payne have all been more bad than good. Dieng and Shabazz have made strides offensively, but both are very poor defenders.

The fact of the matter is that other than post game 25 Wiggins, our vets have been saddled with a bunch of players who simply aren't good.....yet. Hopefully they will improve and get better, but that's no guarantee either, as we have seen countless of young players cycle through this franchise over the years that end up never improving.

We have to keep this in mind with our lottery pick this year. That player probably won't be making a big impact for us until year 2 or 3, and will perhaps be more of a liability on the court in Year 1.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Very good point Hockey. If anything, fans overvalue the impact of rookies and 2nd year players. Even Wiggins had a miserable start, going 20+ games before hitting his stride. And even now, he still has a "meh" performance on a regular basis. LaVine, Bennett, and Payne have all been more bad than good. Dieng and Shabazz have made strides offensively, but both are very poor defenders.

The fact of the matter is that other than post game 25 Wiggins, our vets have been saddled with a bunch of players who simply aren't good.....yet. Hopefully they will improve and get better, but that's no guarantee either, as we have seen countless of young players cycle through this franchise over the years that end up never improving.

We have to keep this in mind with our lottery pick this year. That player probably won't be making a big impact for us until year 2 or 3, and will perhaps be more of a liability on the court in Year 1.

Sorta related, no NBA team with its best player shooting less than 38% has been good in about 60 years. Rubio is still a more effective player on the court than Wiggins. I think we all realize that should change once Wiggins develops a bit more.

Until then, however, the Wolves will remain a bad team. Whether they ever become "good" depends on the development of Wiggins specifically... and a few auxiliary players. And, the luck of the ping pong balls.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Ricky will always be a player that every Wolves fan makes excuses for. I'm still not sure why . Considering how we all tear down every other player . KG included.

Pork, while I tend to agree more with the Ricky defenders on this thread (the with and without numbers regarding Ricky are just too persuasive), I do agree with your statement that Wolves' fans will always make excuses for Ricky. But I think the reason is fairly clear. Most Wolves' fans will give a lot more rope to a player who always plays hard, always acts like a good teammate, and plays without an enormous ego. Ricky is very easy to cheer for because he appears to be such a good guy.