Non Love moves to make this summer

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khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
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Re: Non Love moves to make this summer

Post by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728] »

Your still comparing two guys by using team stats that are affected by players other than them. He legitimately gets more rebounds per game than Pek. How does other player's getting more rebounds when Pek is on the court than Dieng make Pek a better rebounder than Dieng? Pek isn't grabbing those boards. Someone else is. That makes no sense. We aren't comparing team rebounding numbers. The argument is that Dieng is a better rebounder than Pek which is backed up by statistics. How do team rebounds judge whether an individual is a better rebounder than someone else? There is no evidence that Pek is a better rebounder than Dieng and to bring the whole team in on the comparison is reaching just to make Pek seem better. This isn't rocket science. Dieng is a better rebounder than Pek individually, but the team rebounds better with Pek on the floor. That still doesn't make Pek a better rebounder than Dieng. It just means everybody else rebounded better around Pek than they did for Dieng which is totally circumstantial and could easily flip at any moment. Add in that Dieng was a rookie last year while Pek has been in the league for several years now and it is a no brainer who is the better option moving forward when just talking about individual rebounding prowess. Your comparison is like saying Harden is a better scorer than Durant because his team scores better around him than they do Durant.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: Non Love moves to make this summer

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

And yet your sample size is a grand total of 15 games.
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KiwiMatt
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Re: Non Love moves to make this summer

Post by KiwiMatt »

Chase Budinger and J.J Barea to MIL for O.J Mayo and John Henson.

Why for MIN: O.J Mayo had a horrible year with a dysfunctional Milwaukee outfit. The season prior he played well for the Mavs in a good environment where he was allowed to shot. For the Wolves he would play the 6th man combo guard role behind Martin and spot minutes at PG if required. John Henson gives us an athletic shot blocking PF/C.

Why for MIL: Dumping the little used Mayo's salary the main reason. They had interest in Budinger during the off season last year and may wish to acquire him still. Barea gives them a serviceable back up PG and cap relief at seasons end.

Rubio / Shved
Martin / Mayo
Brewer / Muhammad / LMAN
Love / Henson / Hummel
Pekovic / Dieng / Turiaf

13th + second rounders and MLE to round out roster.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: Non Love moves to make this summer

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

John Henson has loads more value than you're giving him credit for, Kiwi.
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KiwiMatt
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Re: Non Love moves to make this summer

Post by KiwiMatt »

Camden wrote:John Henson has loads more value than you're giving him credit for, Kiwi.


Yes he holds a lot of value to me Cam, but MIL aren't unloading Mayo (and his contract) without giving away someone/thing of value. Plus Saunders and Henson can't really co-exist due to similar skill sets, so I'm sure MIL will be looking to trade one of them. Throw in a second rounder if need be.

Paying a Mayo 8 mill a season to sit on the end of the bench is not what MIL had in mind when they signed him. His contract is a serious burden for them atm and they seriously hurt his trade value by not playing him.
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m4gor [enjin:6667447]
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Re: Non Love moves to make this summer

Post by m4gor [enjin:6667447] »

khans2k5 wrote:Here's the problem with that article. Dieng averaged 12 RPG's in the 15 games he started this year to Pek's 8.7 while averaging more offensive and defensive rebounds per game. I don't see how evaluating the team's total rebounding percentage is an effective way to see how one guy is a better rebounder than the other considering the stats the writer uses contains the whole team. There are constantly different circumstances for why some lineups rebound better than others. From the eye test of the box score, Dieng had a couple games with close to 20 boards that Pek never gets close to and the stats flat out say when Dieng started, he got 3.3 more RPG's than Pek did in the same starting position. This is an individual comparison, so adding in team circumstances is like saying a bench player is better than a starter because his +/- is better. It makes no sense when there is literally a stat that says Dieng got more rebounds in basically the same role as Pek (Dieng averaged 2 MPG's more than Pek in that role, but that is not enough to make up for 3+ rebounds).

Camden wrote:And yet Pekovic's presence was better for the team's rebounding ability, which is all that matters. Who helps the team get more boards: Pek or Dieng. You're also giving Dieng credit as a better rebounder based off a 15 game sample. You can call G a good rebounder and I'll agree with you. Can't agree that he's better on the glass than Pek yet. Nope.


well guys the reality is that even though Dieng grabs more rebounds than PEK per 48 minutes, .. PEK on the floor holds opposing centers on his bulky back not allowing them to rebound which clears space for Love and others to rebound the ball instead of him, .. it is quite interisting that with PEK on the floor Love grabs around 14 rebounds per game, but with Dieng he gets only like 11 rebs per game
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MikeAz [enjin:6636981]
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Re: Non Love moves to make this summer

Post by MikeAz [enjin:6636981] »

I read somewhere (Sid maybe?) that the Wolves may play Pek and Dieng together more next year, I kind of like the sounds of that as Dieng could provide that rim protection that has been missing from Pek. I'm guessing that would only be in spurts but I'm intrigued by the idea.
mjs34
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Re: Non Love moves to make this summer

Post by mjs34 »

Not sure how that will help keep Pek's minutes down, and it also will likely create spacing problems down low.
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khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
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Re: Non Love moves to make this summer

Post by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728] »

m4gor wrote:
khans2k5 wrote:Here's the problem with that article. Dieng averaged 12 RPG's in the 15 games he started this year to Pek's 8.7 while averaging more offensive and defensive rebounds per game. I don't see how evaluating the team's total rebounding percentage is an effective way to see how one guy is a better rebounder than the other considering the stats the writer uses contains the whole team. There are constantly different circumstances for why some lineups rebound better than others. From the eye test of the box score, Dieng had a couple games with close to 20 boards that Pek never gets close to and the stats flat out say when Dieng started, he got 3.3 more RPG's than Pek did in the same starting position. This is an individual comparison, so adding in team circumstances is like saying a bench player is better than a starter because his +/- is better. It makes no sense when there is literally a stat that says Dieng got more rebounds in basically the same role as Pek (Dieng averaged 2 MPG's more than Pek in that role, but that is not enough to make up for 3+ rebounds).

Camden wrote:And yet Pekovic's presence was better for the team's rebounding ability, which is all that matters. Who helps the team get more boards: Pek or Dieng. You're also giving Dieng credit as a better rebounder based off a 15 game sample. You can call G a good rebounder and I'll agree with you. Can't agree that he's better on the glass than Pek yet. Nope.


well guys the reality is that even though Dieng grabs more rebounds than PEK per 48 minutes, .. PEK on the floor holds opposing centers on his bulky back not allowing them to rebound which clears space for Love and others to rebound the ball instead of him, .. it is quite interisting that with PEK on the floor Love grabs around 14 rebounds per game, but with Dieng he gets only like 11 rebs per game


It's funny how Love averages 3 less RPG's with Dieng on the floor than Pek. Where do those boards go? Could they conveniently be being grabbed by Dieng who gets 3 more per game than Pek?
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m4gor [enjin:6667447]
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Re: Non Love moves to make this summer

Post by m4gor [enjin:6667447] »

khans2k5 wrote:
m4gor wrote:
khans2k5 wrote:Here's the problem with that article. Dieng averaged 12 RPG's in the 15 games he started this year to Pek's 8.7 while averaging more offensive and defensive rebounds per game. I don't see how evaluating the team's total rebounding percentage is an effective way to see how one guy is a better rebounder than the other considering the stats the writer uses contains the whole team. There are constantly different circumstances for why some lineups rebound better than others. From the eye test of the box score, Dieng had a couple games with close to 20 boards that Pek never gets close to and the stats flat out say when Dieng started, he got 3.3 more RPG's than Pek did in the same starting position. This is an individual comparison, so adding in team circumstances is like saying a bench player is better than a starter because his +/- is better. It makes no sense when there is literally a stat that says Dieng got more rebounds in basically the same role as Pek (Dieng averaged 2 MPG's more than Pek in that role, but that is not enough to make up for 3+ rebounds).

Camden wrote:And yet Pekovic's presence was better for the team's rebounding ability, which is all that matters. Who helps the team get more boards: Pek or Dieng. You're also giving Dieng credit as a better rebounder based off a 15 game sample. You can call G a good rebounder and I'll agree with you. Can't agree that he's better on the glass than Pek yet. Nope.


well guys the reality is that even though Dieng grabs more rebounds than PEK per 48 minutes, .. PEK on the floor holds opposing centers on his bulky back not allowing them to rebound which clears space for Love and others to rebound the ball instead of him, .. it is quite interisting that with PEK on the floor Love grabs around 14 rebounds per game, but with Dieng he gets only like 11 rebs per game


It's funny how Love averages 3 less RPG's with Dieng on the floor than Pek. Where do those boards go? Could they conveniently be being grabbed by Dieng who gets 3 more per game than Pek?


These are stats of PEK
Player 48-Minute Production by Position
Position FGA eFG% FTA iFG Reb Ast T/O Blk PF Pts PER*
C 20.2   .541   7.2   75%  13.5   1.4   2.4   .7   3.7   27.2   21.8  
Opponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production
Position FGA eFG% FTA iFG Reb Ast T/O Blk PF Pts PER*
C 12.8   .551   3.3   44%  13.5   2.7   3.1   2.6   6.3   16.3   15.0

These are stats of Dieng
Player 48-Minute Production by Position
Position FGA eFG% FTA iFG Reb Ast T/O Blk PF Pts PER*
C 13.3   .500   5.5   55%  17.6   2.3   3.2   2.9   6.3   16.8   17.7  
Opponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production
Position FGA eFG% FTA iFG Reb Ast T/O Blk PF Pts PER*
C 16.6   .528   7.1   51%  16.2   2.3   3.2   2.6   4.3   22.4   21.7  

so back to my comment even though dieng is better rebounder he allows more rebs to his counterpart, as a result it is better rebounding for a team with PEK on the floor
  
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