Target Trade Teams

[Duke13]

I think the word "reasonable" was used, nobody said it was the best contract in the league. And how do you know either way if anyone has offered anything for Gorgi, he signed the contract during the year and the year isn't over yet. I'll hang up and listen...

[TheFuture]

Ok first off I expect that this post will be dissmissed or will be shot down right away, but it is outside of the box that could maybe help the wolves but there is some big time risks involved. What do you guys think about trading for Chris Bosh?

Now first off we would have to do extensive research on if he is even able to play and all this comes with if he can play or not. He has not played in like the last 100 games of the NBA season. He will be turning 33 during the next season and during his last season in the NBA (15-16) he averaged 19.1 pts 7.4 rebs 2.4 asts 0.6 blks with 46% FG% and 36% 3PT% on 4 attempts per game.

There is a couple of big question that go with him, is healthy enough to ever play basketball again, from reports Bosh still wants to play and "his" doctors have cleared him to play basketball but the Heat doctors will not clear him to play. So the Wolves would need him to come in for a physical where they would have to do a ton of research. Also he will be 33 so will he continue to be an all star or even solid NBA player for not playing in over a year. The one thing though is his disease is not like a ACL injury or chronic foot problems, if he can play what is a big IF it is not like Brandon Roy where we took a chance on where his injury would make him a shell of his former self.

Now Bosh will make 25 mil and 26 mil over the next 2 years what is a lot but if he is still the all star player he would be worth it.It also works out pretty good because the Wolves would have only one year where the Wolves will sniff the lux tax and that is in the 18-19 season when Wiggins and Lavne contracts extensions are up.

Now why would the Heat want to get rid of Bosh, he is taking up 25 mil in there cap and they have all but said that he will never play for them again because of his disease. Also Bosh is not like Pek because Bosh still wants to play so he will not retire so they can't get a medical exemption so that is a lot of dead money the Heat will have over the next 2 years.

So what type of trades would make sense. Something like Aldrich Tyus and future 2nd for Bosh. They Trade would save the Heat 17 million this year and 35 mil in total over the next 2 years with gaining an extra 2nd round pick. Also it would allow the wolves to "save" 8 million getting Tyus and Aldrich off their books and with the wolves being projected to have about 29 million in cap space this offseason we would add 25 mil in bosh (4 mil left) but take off 8 mill in the Tyus and Aldrich contracts so the Wolves would have about 12 mil in cap to add another vet of the likes of Thabo,Luc Richard or players like that .

Another trade that could maybe work, is the 6th pick, Aldrich, Tyus for Bosh, WInslow and #14, Pat Riley always says that they need to add stars and the 14th pick is going to be harder to add a star compared to the 6th pick. So the Wolves get Winslow (maybe that is to much to ask but he is garbage at offense) and the #14 pick in exgange for taking the Bosh contract/player off their hands and allowing them to move up to #6 and at #14 we would be the Zach Collins range.

Sorry for the super long post, but I was just thinking of ways the wolves could get better this offseason and I see this as a way that could make the Wolves a lot better and it is outside of the box thinking. There would be gigantic risks but the wolves would have to do a ton of research but this is one way that could make the wolves better next 2 years and possibly make us a "fake contender" if Bosh is the same type of player and it does not kill our financial future.

That last trade option. Is super interesting. I'd do it.

Bosh works or he doesn't, so what.

Winslow and #14 > #6.

I can see pat doing it to pair a top pick with Whiteside and Dragic while also opening room for a top FA + waiters or James Johnson.

Reward > Risk in my opinion.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

Maybe, I'm in the minority but I think a top 6 pick in this year's draft is more valuable than Zach Lavine and I like Zach. Ask yourself if you'd trade Zach for the players mentioned and if not, then why do it. Whoever we draft, we'll control their rights for three years longer on a rookie deal plus I think there will be guys available in the top 6 with better upside than Zach and would probably be better fits for us. I really hope we keep our pick and there are lot of guy's I like this year who I think will be impact players.

[Monster]

I'm in favor of keeping the pick. However as we all know there is no guarantee that guy will turn out to be good or even decent. If you can trade that pick for a really good starting level player you would have to consider doing it. It would have to be a trade that fit the roster though. If the guy was a bigger SF or a PF then I think I would listen. Trading for Fournier if he was a SF would be much more interesting to me (assuming he plays defense) but I just don't think it makes sense to add a SG to a team with Lavine and Wiggins. I just have doubts any deals like this would materialize that make sense for both teams and therefore end up happening.

The point Lip makes starting this thread is valid. I think the Wolves are going to have to be creative and optimistic to improve the roster when it come to more established players. I keep saying it but be prepared for an underwhelming summer in terms of adding vet help.

[Monster]

"Thibs puts a very high value or Gorgui and I don't see another team offering something Thibs would accept"

I am still puzzled by the so called reasonable contract that Gorgui signed, and have a few questions.

Why wouldn't another team be offering something really good for him if the contract is that good?
Why did we sign him to a four year deal with one year left on his current contract?
Why not let him test the market in RFA before throwing that kind of money at him?
Why did Thibs give him 16mil/yr and then thirty games into the season, say he sees him coming off the bench?
How many bench guys on horrible teams make that kind of money, for that many years?
In two more years if were lucky KAT, Wig, and Zach will be making 80-85mil combined, that means over 100 mil with Gorgui, so how are we supposed to have a bench?

I'll hang up and listen......

On signing Dieng tonthe deal when we could have waited...it's possible that Dieng would have gotten even more money this summer. If you look at what some bigs made last summer it makes Dieng's deal look pretty solid. There is some value in giving your guy a deal and showing confidence in them if you are in the neighborhood of expectations contract wise. Bazz and the Wolves apparently were not. We all can see that made perfect sense.

In a couple years the mid-level will be around 10 million. Dieng's contract is gonna be in the neighborhood of what top bench players get. Look at what backup PGs got last offseason and some bench bigs got around 10 million. I'm not saying Dieng's contract is a bargain but salaries are going to keep going up and up and up. Remeber when Rubio's deal seemed like a lot of money? Yeah it's hard to get your mind around these new contracts but Dieng's is going to be a decent chunk of the cap space but I think he is also going to be a key piece to this team going forward. Dieng is going into his 5th season he could be one of those vet players we are clamoring for that will help this team win. I think he is a guy along with Rubio can be vet players playing for the same coach and the same system that can help stabilize the team more next year than they did this year. Jon K has said a few times Dieng has a voice in the locker room and one thing ai likes about his this year is he played more chippy than in the past. Dieng is a good guy but he got a little more nasty this year. He still has a little more upside to him because he keeps working on extending his range.

[Duke13]

Lip, I agree with you, Millsap would be the ideal free agent. He'd be the one I'd pay for, unfortunately I think we are a year too early. I think if we were one year further along in our development, i.e. Having made the playoffs and being competitive against the top teams in the west he'd be more opening to signing here. I just don't see it this year.

I agree with you, we need to get creative and start finding some guys on the cheap or at the back end of draft, that's what the good teams are doing. It's about culture, creating environment to being in guys and have them succeed, that falls on Tibs, Kat, Wig and Zach. Pretty easy for guys to plug into the Spurs and Warriors culture.

Somebody should start a list of free agent signings over the past two years league wide. Most don't pay off. Bazemore was a board favorite, over paid! Deng, same thing! Even Turner, same!

[mjs34]

"Thibs puts a very high value or Gorgui and I don't see another team offering something Thibs would accept"

I am still puzzled by the so called reasonable contract that Gorgui signed, and have a few questions.

Why wouldn't another team be offering something really good for him if the contract is that good?
Why did we sign him to a four year deal with one year left on his current contract?
Why not let him test the market in RFA before throwing that kind of money at him?
Why did Thibs give him 16mil/yr and then thirty games into the season, say he sees him coming off the bench?
How many bench guys on horrible teams make that kind of money, for that many years?
In two more years if were lucky KAT, Wig, and Zach will be making 80-85mil combined, that means over 100 mil with Gorgui, so how are we supposed to have a bench?

I'll hang up and listen......

On signing Dieng tonthe deal when we could have waited...it's possible that Dieng would have gotten even more money this summer. If you look at what some bigs made last summer it makes Dieng's deal look pretty solid. There is some value in giving your guy a deal and showing confidence in them if you are in the neighborhood of expectations contract wise. Bazz and the Wolves apparently were not. We all can see that made perfect sense.

In a couple years the mid-level will be around 10 million. Dieng's contract is gonna be in the neighborhood of what top bench players get. Look at what backup PGs got last offseason and some bench bigs got around 10 million. I'm not saying Dieng's contract is a bargain but salaries are going to keep going up and up and up. Remeber when Rubio's deal seemed like a lot of money? Yeah it's hard to get your mind around these new contracts but Dieng's is going to be a decent chunk of the cap space but I think he is also going to be a key piece to this team going forward. Dieng is going into his 5th season he could be one of those vet players we are clamoring for that will help this team win. I think he is a guy along with Rubio can be vet players playing for the same coach and the same system that can help stabilize the team more next year than they did this year. Jon K has said a few times Dieng has a voice in the locker room and one thing ai likes about his this year is he played more chippy than in the past. Dieng is a good guy but he got a little more nasty this year. He still has a little more upside to him because he keeps working on extending his range.

It is possible that he could have gotten more, but like most of those other large deals handed out last year, it would just mean he was overpaid. Guys like Mozgov, Deng, Biyombo, etc. are almost untradeable already. It's also possible that like Pek, nobody would even be making him an offer. What if Gorgui had sustained an injury this season? You just don't sign guys after their third season on rookie deals to long deals for significant money unless they are part of your core going forward, and Gorgui doesn't even fit with KAT or Wig. We needed a beefy hardnosed defensive PF/C next to KAT, and instead we dropped a 4 year 64 mil contract on Gorgui.

You are clearing ignoring the latest estimates on the cap, if you think Gorgui's deal isn't going to be a problem. If Thibs expects KAT, Wig and Zach to all sign future deals, then we are already in cap hell. If do anything other than replace Ricky with a rookie, we won't have any cap space in a couple more years. The last article I read estimated the cap at 100, 102-105, and 105-108 for the next three years. That leaves us 8 mil if our 3 young guns get what we expect and you add Gorgui in there. No PG, no veteran help, is included. Add a Sefolosha or Gibson to this roster and we are in the luxury tax.

Maybe Thibs' math isn't that good!

[Lipoli390]

Lip, I agree with you, Millsap would be the ideal free agent. He'd be the one I'd pay for, unfortunately I think we are a year too early. I think if we were one year further along in our development, i.e. Having made the playoffs and being competitive against the top teams in the west he'd be more opening to signing here. I just don't see it this year.

I agree with you, we need to get creative and start finding some guys on the cheap or at the back end of draft, that's what the good teams are doing. It's about culture, creating environment to being in guys and have them succeed, that falls on Tibs, Kat, Wig and Zach. Pretty easy for guys to plug into the Spurs and Warriors culture.

Somebody should start a list of free agent signings over the past two years league wide. Most don't pay off. Bazemore was a board favorite, over paid! Deng, same thing! Even Turner, same!

Duke -- You make a great point about the many free agent acquisitions that don't pay off as expected. We often talk about how many draft picks don't pan out. You just called out the overlooked fact that free agent signings also often disappoint. So we can't necessarily count on free agency or trades more than the draft to significantly improve the team to the point where we're eventually a championship contender in 2-3 years.

That brings me to my main point. It's all about the quality of the front office. The good front offices typically get good players - whether through the draft, free agency or trades. And they typically hire excellent head coaches who get the most out of those players. The bad and mediocre front offices typically end up with bad or mediocre acquisitions. The Spurs pulled off a draft day trade in order to draft Leonard after previously acquiring George Hill who was great for them as a player and then instrumental as an asset needed to get the rights to Leonard. They drafted Parker at the end of the 1st round and Manu at the end of the 2nd. They signed Demond last summer and previously acquired via trade or free agency the likes of Danny Green, Aldridge and others. Of course, long ago they hired Popp. Golden State drafts Curry, Thompson, Green and Barnes (eventually traded). They trade for Iggy and sign Livingston. They hire an excellent head coach suited to the modern NBA and to their roster. They put all that together to build a franchise that attracted Kevin Durant, who they were able to sign with all the other talent because of smart salary cap management.

We got lucky when LeBron went to Cleveland and insisted that the Cavs give up Wiggins for Love. We got lucky getting the 1st pick in the draft when KAT was available. Credit Flip for the patience and smarts to take advantage of the opportunity that arose when LeBron went back to Cleveland. Also credit him with the judgment to change his mind and take KAT rather than Okafor. And credit him for the good judgment to take Zach at #13, but note that we were fortunate Stauskas was off the Board because Flip told me he would have been his pick instead of Zach if available. So Flip was the best thing we've had in our front office for a long time, but I don't think he was a Spurs or Warriors caliber GM. Would the Spurs or Warriors organizations have traded the chance to draft McCollum for the two picks Flip got in return? If so, would they have drafted Bazz instead of the Greek Freak? We'll never know for sure, but I suspect not. The Bucks front office appears to be emerging as one of the good ones as well.

Our current front office hasn't been in place long enough to evaluate. I wasn't thrilled with the Dunn pick, but the jury's still out on that pick. I think it made sense to keep their powder dry last summer to give Thibs a chance to fully evaluate what we have. But this summer will give us a great insight into whether we have a top front office that can build a top team. Thibs and Layden have the advantage of having inherited some superb young talent. Now it's up them and the rest of the front office team to show us their stuff in how they handle a top 6 pick, 20-30 million in cap space and our current players/assets.

[Monster]

"Thibs puts a very high value or Gorgui and I don't see another team offering something Thibs would accept"

I am still puzzled by the so called reasonable contract that Gorgui signed, and have a few questions.

Why wouldn't another team be offering something really good for him if the contract is that good?
Why did we sign him to a four year deal with one year left on his current contract?
Why not let him test the market in RFA before throwing that kind of money at him?
Why did Thibs give him 16mil/yr and then thirty games into the season, say he sees him coming off the bench?
How many bench guys on horrible teams make that kind of money, for that many years?
In two more years if were lucky KAT, Wig, and Zach will be making 80-85mil combined, that means over 100 mil with Gorgui, so how are we supposed to have a bench?

I'll hang up and listen......

On signing Dieng tonthe deal when we could have waited...it's possible that Dieng would have gotten even more money this summer. If you look at what some bigs made last summer it makes Dieng's deal look pretty solid. There is some value in giving your guy a deal and showing confidence in them if you are in the neighborhood of expectations contract wise. Bazz and the Wolves apparently were not. We all can see that made perfect sense.

In a couple years the mid-level will be around 10 million. Dieng's contract is gonna be in the neighborhood of what top bench players get. Look at what backup PGs got last offseason and some bench bigs got around 10 million. I'm not saying Dieng's contract is a bargain but salaries are going to keep going up and up and up. Remeber when Rubio's deal seemed like a lot of money? Yeah it's hard to get your mind around these new contracts but Dieng's is going to be a decent chunk of the cap space but I think he is also going to be a key piece to this team going forward. Dieng is going into his 5th season he could be one of those vet players we are clamoring for that will help this team win. I think he is a guy along with Rubio can be vet players playing for the same coach and the same system that can help stabilize the team more next year than they did this year. Jon K has said a few times Dieng has a voice in the locker room and one thing ai likes about his this year is he played more chippy than in the past. Dieng is a good guy but he got a little more nasty this year. He still has a little more upside to him because he keeps working on extending his range.

It is possible that he could have gotten more, but like most of those other large deals handed out last year, it would just mean he was overpaid. Guys like Mozgov, Deng, Biyombo, etc. are almost untradeable already. It's also possible that like Pek, nobody would even be making him an offer. What if Gorgui had sustained an injury this season? You just don't sign guys after their third season on rookie deals to long deals for significant money unless they are part of your core going forward, and Gorgui doesn't even fit with KAT or Wig. We needed a beefy hardnosed defensive PF/C next to KAT, and instead we dropped a 4 year 64 mil contract on Gorgui.

You are clearing ignoring the latest estimates on the cap, if you think Gorgui's deal isn't going to be a problem. If Thibs expects KAT, Wig and Zach to all sign future deals, then we are already in cap hell. If do anything other than replace Ricky with a rookie, we won't have any cap space in a couple more years. The last article I read estimated the cap at 100, 102-105, and 105-108 for the next three years. That leaves us 8 mil if our 3 young guns get what we expect and you add Gorgui in there. No PG, no veteran help, is included. Add a Sefolosha or Gibson to this roster and we are in the luxury tax.

Maybe Thibs' math isn't that good!

Well...te cap for next year is at least 102 by the last estimate. Dieng's deal is 4 years 62 million so...also what is the Lux max for those years that's the real cap number to be concerned with. Also you are saying maybe Dieng gets hurt or isn't that good. What if the went out and put up 17-10 this year? I think the reality is that it was a decent deal fair for both sides and could go a few different ways as far as value. I think Dieng has a lot of value going forward to this team. That's debatable though I get that. The original question was why did the Wolves do what they did. I tried to make a case for it. That's all.

Also people that seem to think the cap is only going to go up a couple million the next 2 years probably aren't calulating the fact that teams are selling patches on jerseys now and a chunk of that revenue will go right back to the players in the form of salary cap going up every year. Unless we see another financial crisis in this country (its possible) the cap is going to keep going up a decent chunk every year.

Is/will Dieng's contract going to keep the Wolves from adding bench depth later? Yeah that's a fair thing to consider. So will adding some FAs this summer too. It's a tricky deal and if you spend money on guys that end up not being worth it that's a bad thing. I think Dieng is going to be worth most of his contract. You mentioned some guys that might not be worth a 3rd of their contract. That's a really bad thing. Hopefully the Wolves can avoid that type of a deal.