The odds of the Wolves signing an elite or near-elite FA are slim to none and slim's out of town. At best, the Wolves will be able to land JJ Redick, but I'm not sure his value to the Wolves would be worth the price he'll likely command to come to the Wolves. So I would expect that signing an Amir Johnson or Thabo Sefolosha would be the best the Wolves can do through free agency.
Therefore, more significant additions than an Amir or Thabo type player will require a trade. Thibs has made it clear that he's building around KAT, Towns and Zach, so none of those three will be traded. Thibs won't trade Ricky because we have no NBA-ready PG on the roster, which means we'd have to get a better PG in return to make any such trade worthwhile and that's not realistic. Thibs knows he needs to win next season so he can't risk entering the season with Dunn as his starting PG. Thibs won't trade Gorgui because he loves him and has him on a very reasonable contract. There's no one else on this roster with any meaningful trade value. That means the only realistically tradeable asset with enough value to bring back a significant return is our first-round pick. If it's a top three, Thibs could potentially make a really big splash. If it's #6, it's still a valuable trade asset.
If Thibs wants to shop our 1st round pick, he should target teams that hit a wall and likely can't see championship contention in their future without a major move -- and more likely a move that brings in a potential young star. I see several teams in that bucket:
1. Orlando Magic -- This franchise is looking like a disaster. They looked like a team about the ascend a couple years ago, but terrible draft and trade decisions along with other factors have left them stuck in the mud and sinking. They have the 5th spot in the lottery and will likely have a pick somewhere in the 1-6 range. I would think they'd love to add our pick this summer. But what could we get in return? Players on their roster who might be of interest are Biyombo, Evan Fournier, Vucevic, and Terrence Ross. Biyombo would improve our shot-blocking, one of Thibs' goals. Evan Fournier would improve our 3-point shooting and would likely plug in as our starting SG. Vucevic would slot in instantly as our starting C next to KAT at PF. Ross would also improve our 3-point shooting off the bench as a wing. All their contracts are at least 2 years, which makes sure we don't end up with a one-and-done player in return for a valuable draft asset. And all these guys, except maybe Biyombo, have relatively reasonable contracts for what they offer. Even Biyombo's at $17 million per year isn't terrible. Would Orlando deal any of these four straight up for our pick? If we're a top 3, I think they would gladly deal any of them. If it's #6, I think they'd give us any of the above except Vucevic or Fournier. Should the Wolves do the deal? I'd deal a #6 pick only for Fournier or Vucevic, the two guys Orlando would not likely give us. If we have one of the top 3, I'd be interested in Fournier or Vucevic, but I'd want Orlando's #25 pick as well. If we have a top two pick, I think we could do better than that deal with another team since Fultz and Ball will likely be in high demand.
Charlotte Hornets: The Hornets looked last season like a team on the rise. They have a great PG and some other pieces. But this season they didn't even make the playoffs and it's hard to see a path for them to championship contention down the road without getting another potential star to go along with Kemba. And I don't see an elite free agent signing there. They have the 11th pick this year, but I have to believe they would LOVE a top 6 pick and drool at the prospect of a top 3. Kidd-Gillchrist, Jeremy Lamb, Marco Belinelli, and Cody Zeller are all interesting players who could help the Wolves in various ways. None of these guys are worth a top #6 pick straight up in my view. But Kidd-Gillchrist would help our defense and rebounding from the SF position and would be an interesting pick-up as part of a return package from the Hornets.
Knicks: Another team that has to be desperate for something exciting for the future. They will likely have the 7th pick. No doubt they'd love another high lottery pick. They have a couple interesting players who could possibly help us -- Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas. But neither is, in my view, worth our pick. Is there some sort of package we could get in return along with Lee to make a deal worthwhile for us? Not sure.
Other teams that might be good targets for interest in our pick?
Target Trade Teams
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BloopOracle
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Re: Target Trade Teams
Crushing that you weren't able to put the Clips on teh list with the news that they aren't blowing things up even if they lose in the first round this year. Even if we didn't get a single one of their players putting Paul, Blake, and DEandre onto other teams would have pushed other available players our way
Re: Target Trade Teams
If we'd trade a top 6 pick for any of that over priced garbage from Orlando I'd stop following this team. And a player like Courtney Lee wouldn't do much to change our outlook next year that you couldn't sign on the FA market.
Moves like you mentioned remind me of the Washington deal Flip made for Foye and Miller in attempt to quick fix a playoff push. We obviously made the wrong pick(s), but that was a terrible deal for Washington, and it didn't get them in the playoffs.
Those shortsighted moves do absolutely nothing for me and most likely wouldn't be factors in us making the playoffs.
I disagree with you Tibs wouldn't deal Gorgi just because he likes him. He has value, because he's a good player on a decent deal. Tibs would deal him if something came up. Same with Rubio, he would deal him of the price is right and find a stop gap PG in a trade or on the market. Rubio as been here 7-8 years with zero playoff games. He's not untouchable and not vital to us making the playoff in my opinion.
Can someone name a player who has started on a team for 7-8 years without a playoff appearance. I don't think I can.
Moves like you mentioned remind me of the Washington deal Flip made for Foye and Miller in attempt to quick fix a playoff push. We obviously made the wrong pick(s), but that was a terrible deal for Washington, and it didn't get them in the playoffs.
Those shortsighted moves do absolutely nothing for me and most likely wouldn't be factors in us making the playoffs.
I disagree with you Tibs wouldn't deal Gorgi just because he likes him. He has value, because he's a good player on a decent deal. Tibs would deal him if something came up. Same with Rubio, he would deal him of the price is right and find a stop gap PG in a trade or on the market. Rubio as been here 7-8 years with zero playoff games. He's not untouchable and not vital to us making the playoff in my opinion.
Can someone name a player who has started on a team for 7-8 years without a playoff appearance. I don't think I can.
Re: Target Trade Teams
Duke -- Of course Thibs would trade Gorgui or Ricky "if the price were right." For that matter, he'd trade Zach, Wiggins or even KAT if he thought the return was worth it. I'm just speaking to realistic scenarios. Thibs puts a very high value or Gorgui and I don't see another team offering something Thibs would accept. I won't restate my analysis of the situation with Ricky. Thibs simply isn't going to go into next season with Dunn as his starting PG. Would Thibs trade Ricky straight up for Butler. Probably, because Butler can actually handle the ball and run the offense well enough to go without a good vet replacement for Ricky at the point. But that's not a realistic scenario.
You must be really high on what the Wolves can get with the 6th pick to dismiss the notion of trading it for Vucevic or Fournier. I can understand not giving up a top three pick or especially a top 2 pick for either one, even if we received Orlando's 25th pick as well. I wouldn't do that deal either because I think we could do better.
My own preference is to keep our pick unless we can get a D'Andre Jordan in return. As I've mentioned in other threads, infusing this roster with more young talent with elite potential is important given all the variables with the development of our current young core and given the fact that this may be our last high lottery pick for a number of years - likely no first round pick next season. But I anticipate Thibs trading the pick and my fear is that he'll be too eager to trade it.
You must be really high on what the Wolves can get with the 6th pick to dismiss the notion of trading it for Vucevic or Fournier. I can understand not giving up a top three pick or especially a top 2 pick for either one, even if we received Orlando's 25th pick as well. I wouldn't do that deal either because I think we could do better.
My own preference is to keep our pick unless we can get a D'Andre Jordan in return. As I've mentioned in other threads, infusing this roster with more young talent with elite potential is important given all the variables with the development of our current young core and given the fact that this may be our last high lottery pick for a number of years - likely no first round pick next season. But I anticipate Thibs trading the pick and my fear is that he'll be too eager to trade it.
Re: Target Trade Teams
Ok first off I expect that this post will be dissmissed or will be shot down right away, but it is outside of the box that could maybe help the wolves but there is some big time risks involved. What do you guys think about trading for Chris Bosh?
Now first off we would have to do extensive research on if he is even able to play and all this comes with if he can play or not. He has not played in like the last 100 games of the NBA season. He will be turning 33 during the next season and during his last season in the NBA (15-16) he averaged 19.1 pts 7.4 rebs 2.4 asts 0.6 blks with 46% FG% and 36% 3PT% on 4 attempts per game.
There is a couple of big question that go with him, is healthy enough to ever play basketball again, from reports Bosh still wants to play and "his" doctors have cleared him to play basketball but the Heat doctors will not clear him to play. So the Wolves would need him to come in for a physical where they would have to do a ton of research. Also he will be 33 so will he continue to be an all star or even solid NBA player for not playing in over a year. The one thing though is his disease is not like a ACL injury or chronic foot problems, if he can play what is a big IF it is not like Brandon Roy where we took a chance on where his injury would make him a shell of his former self.
Now Bosh will make 25 mil and 26 mil over the next 2 years what is a lot but if he is still the all star player he would be worth it.It also works out pretty good because the Wolves would have only one year where the Wolves will sniff the lux tax and that is in the 18-19 season when Wiggins and Lavne contracts extensions are up.
Now why would the Heat want to get rid of Bosh, he is taking up 25 mil in there cap and they have all but said that he will never play for them again because of his disease. Also Bosh is not like Pek because Bosh still wants to play so he will not retire so they can't get a medical exemption so that is a lot of dead money the Heat will have over the next 2 years.
So what type of trades would make sense. Something like Aldrich Tyus and future 2nd for Bosh. They Trade would save the Heat 17 million this year and 35 mil in total over the next 2 years with gaining an extra 2nd round pick. Also it would allow the wolves to "save" 8 million getting Tyus and Aldrich off their books and with the wolves being projected to have about 29 million in cap space this offseason we would add 25 mil in bosh (4 mil left) but take off 8 mill in the Tyus and Aldrich contracts so the Wolves would have about 12 mil in cap to add another vet of the likes of Thabo,Luc Richard or players like that .
Another trade that could maybe work, is the 6th pick, Aldrich, Tyus for Bosh, WInslow and #14, Pat Riley always says that they need to add stars and the 14th pick is going to be harder to add a star compared to the 6th pick. So the Wolves get Winslow (maybe that is to much to ask but he is garbage at offense) and the #14 pick in exgange for taking the Bosh contract/player off their hands and allowing them to move up to #6 and at #14 we would be the Zach Collins range.
Sorry for the super long post, but I was just thinking of ways the wolves could get better this offseason and I see this as a way that could make the Wolves a lot better and it is outside of the box thinking. There would be gigantic risks but the wolves would have to do a ton of research but this is one way that could make the wolves better next 2 years and possibly make us a "fake contender" if Bosh is the same type of player and it does not kill our financial future.
Now first off we would have to do extensive research on if he is even able to play and all this comes with if he can play or not. He has not played in like the last 100 games of the NBA season. He will be turning 33 during the next season and during his last season in the NBA (15-16) he averaged 19.1 pts 7.4 rebs 2.4 asts 0.6 blks with 46% FG% and 36% 3PT% on 4 attempts per game.
There is a couple of big question that go with him, is healthy enough to ever play basketball again, from reports Bosh still wants to play and "his" doctors have cleared him to play basketball but the Heat doctors will not clear him to play. So the Wolves would need him to come in for a physical where they would have to do a ton of research. Also he will be 33 so will he continue to be an all star or even solid NBA player for not playing in over a year. The one thing though is his disease is not like a ACL injury or chronic foot problems, if he can play what is a big IF it is not like Brandon Roy where we took a chance on where his injury would make him a shell of his former self.
Now Bosh will make 25 mil and 26 mil over the next 2 years what is a lot but if he is still the all star player he would be worth it.It also works out pretty good because the Wolves would have only one year where the Wolves will sniff the lux tax and that is in the 18-19 season when Wiggins and Lavne contracts extensions are up.
Now why would the Heat want to get rid of Bosh, he is taking up 25 mil in there cap and they have all but said that he will never play for them again because of his disease. Also Bosh is not like Pek because Bosh still wants to play so he will not retire so they can't get a medical exemption so that is a lot of dead money the Heat will have over the next 2 years.
So what type of trades would make sense. Something like Aldrich Tyus and future 2nd for Bosh. They Trade would save the Heat 17 million this year and 35 mil in total over the next 2 years with gaining an extra 2nd round pick. Also it would allow the wolves to "save" 8 million getting Tyus and Aldrich off their books and with the wolves being projected to have about 29 million in cap space this offseason we would add 25 mil in bosh (4 mil left) but take off 8 mill in the Tyus and Aldrich contracts so the Wolves would have about 12 mil in cap to add another vet of the likes of Thabo,Luc Richard or players like that .
Another trade that could maybe work, is the 6th pick, Aldrich, Tyus for Bosh, WInslow and #14, Pat Riley always says that they need to add stars and the 14th pick is going to be harder to add a star compared to the 6th pick. So the Wolves get Winslow (maybe that is to much to ask but he is garbage at offense) and the #14 pick in exgange for taking the Bosh contract/player off their hands and allowing them to move up to #6 and at #14 we would be the Zach Collins range.
Sorry for the super long post, but I was just thinking of ways the wolves could get better this offseason and I see this as a way that could make the Wolves a lot better and it is outside of the box thinking. There would be gigantic risks but the wolves would have to do a ton of research but this is one way that could make the wolves better next 2 years and possibly make us a "fake contender" if Bosh is the same type of player and it does not kill our financial future.
Re: Target Trade Teams
Lip, I think a top 6 pick in this draft is very valuable, way more so then Fournier or Vucevic. Why do we need another 7 footer who is a defensive liability.
I personally think it a mistake to over react to last season. Like make short sighted moves to make the playoffs this coming year. And trading the pick for the caliber of players you meantioned I feel would be short sighted. I think the top 10 in this draft is very valuable. I think anyone of the PG's have all star potential, Jackson, Tatum, have high very high ceilings. I don't see Tibs trading this pick based on what we've seen from him. I think he'd take one of these PG's and trade Rubio. Sign Collison, who lead his team to as many wins as Rubio with lesser talent.
I personally think it a mistake to over react to last season. Like make short sighted moves to make the playoffs this coming year. And trading the pick for the caliber of players you meantioned I feel would be short sighted. I think the top 10 in this draft is very valuable. I think anyone of the PG's have all star potential, Jackson, Tatum, have high very high ceilings. I don't see Tibs trading this pick based on what we've seen from him. I think he'd take one of these PG's and trade Rubio. Sign Collison, who lead his team to as many wins as Rubio with lesser talent.
Re: Target Trade Teams
For one thing we don't know who will be running the Magic in a few weeks. They used to be a team you wanted on speed dial. Maybe whoever takes over moved to the top o the list or...maybe they get someone much more savvy. I'm not sure I would trade the 6th pick for Fournier or V and I like both guys. Does Fournier play D because I've heard V is terrible. Also Fournier has had problems staying healthy. Again i don't see the Wolves needing to add a center and that's what's V is and there could be nightmares with him and Towns trying to defend anyone together. Both guys are on decent contracts all things considered which is part of the appeal of them and they are young vets which helps but I think I would pass on those deals unless ai got some other asset back.
Let's say they wanted to do Fournier for #6 and the Pick they got back for dealing Ibaka. I would be interested but also wondered how he would fit with Wiggins and Lavine since he is more of a SG.
Let's say they wanted to do Fournier for #6 and the Pick they got back for dealing Ibaka. I would be interested but also wondered how he would fit with Wiggins and Lavine since he is more of a SG.
Re: Target Trade Teams
Trust me, we'd be at the top of everyone's speed dial if we entertained those offers
Re: Target Trade Teams
Good discussion. I agree with Duke that the Wolves can't panic based on last season. Front offices that do deals because they feel they have to typically make huge mistakes. If you believe in the talent we have, then there's no reason to make trades this summer out of desperation. I still believe in the talent we have. I expect this team to take the same leap the Bucks took last season. We should be able to shore up our bench through free agency this summer. And it's about time this front office found a hidden gem like the Spurs' Dedmon in free agency -- perhaps someone from the D-League.
Re: Target Trade Teams
"Thibs puts a very high value or Gorgui and I don't see another team offering something Thibs would accept"
I am still puzzled by the so called reasonable contract that Gorgui signed, and have a few questions.
Why wouldn't another team be offering something really good for him if the contract is that good?
Why did we sign him to a four year deal with one year left on his current contract?
Why not let him test the market in RFA before throwing that kind of money at him?
Why did Thibs give him 16mil/yr and then thirty games into the season, say he sees him coming off the bench?
How many bench guys on horrible teams make that kind of money, for that many years?
In two more years if were lucky KAT, Wig, and Zach will be making 80-85mil combined, that means over 100 mil with Gorgui, so how are we supposed to have a bench?
I'll hang up and listen......
I am still puzzled by the so called reasonable contract that Gorgui signed, and have a few questions.
Why wouldn't another team be offering something really good for him if the contract is that good?
Why did we sign him to a four year deal with one year left on his current contract?
Why not let him test the market in RFA before throwing that kind of money at him?
Why did Thibs give him 16mil/yr and then thirty games into the season, say he sees him coming off the bench?
How many bench guys on horrible teams make that kind of money, for that many years?
In two more years if were lucky KAT, Wig, and Zach will be making 80-85mil combined, that means over 100 mil with Gorgui, so how are we supposed to have a bench?
I'll hang up and listen......