Milwaukee

[BloopOracle]

what shitty teamates can you play Lebron ball with? you're being too harsh on Towns imo

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

what shitty teamates can you play Lebron ball with? you're being too harsh on Towns imo

Great players just make their teammates better. Harden, Westbrook, LeBron, KD, Curry and on and on. Who did Towns and Wiggins make better around them this year? There's a reason Melo's never won anything. There's a reason Irving's Cavs teams were garbage before Lebron got there. People ask where the help was this year? Great players elevate the help around them. They don't get dragged down by it.

[Monster]

what shitty teamates can you play Lebron ball with? you're being too harsh on Towns imo

Great players just make their teammates better. Harden, Westbrook, LeBron, KD, Curry and on and on. Who did Towns and Wiggins make better around them this year? There's a reason Melo's never won anything. There's a reason Irving's Cavs teams were garbage before Lebron got there. People ask where the help was this year? Great players elevate the help around them. They don't get dragged down by it.

So Kahns your point is that Wiggins and or Towns need to step up their overall and all around games right? That makes sense. Giannis is terrific but his roster while young has some nice pieces too like a very good all around player in Middleton. A couple years ago the question about Giannis was whether his offensive game and BBIQ would be good enough to catch up with his physical and raw basketball gifts. He has answered the bell so far. It's great to see. Towns and Wiggins were basically supposed to carrry the Wolves this year down the stretch and Rubio showed up to help them out. Their other vets were young fringe starters at best in Dieng and Bazz plus their top vet player was Brandon Rush who has never averaged 28mpg for any season in his career. I have faith those guys can get a lot better all around especially Towns. The guy did put up 25-12 and was willing to pass the ball. I don't see Wiggins and Towns or Lavine as selfish players just guys that either haven't figured it out or have the skills or evolved BBIQ yet to get there. I think each year Wiggins has taken legit steps towards becoming a better passer and decision maker. It's gonna take him a while though.

It's fair to criticize these young guys because you can see the talent they have. Sometimes it's hard to know just how much we should be expecting from them. We ask a lot from them and they didn't have a ton of help this season. Let's hope they work on their game and Thibs and Layden can add and develop some supporting players as well. To me the Bucks Roster is certainly deeper than the Wolves right now even without Parker.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

what shitty teamates can you play Lebron ball with? you're being too harsh on Towns imo

Great players just make their teammates better. Harden, Westbrook, LeBron, KD, Curry and on and on. Who did Towns and Wiggins make better around them this year? There's a reason Melo's never won anything. There's a reason Irving's Cavs teams were garbage before Lebron got there. People ask where the help was this year? Great players elevate the help around them. They don't get dragged down by it.

So Kahns your point is that Wiggins and or Towns need to step up their overall and all around games right? That makes sense. Giannis is terrific but his roster while young has some nice pieces too like a very good all around player in Middleton. A couple years ago the question about Giannis was whether his offensive game and BBIQ would be good enough to catch up with his physical and raw basketball gifts. He has answered the bell so far. It's great to see. Towns and Wiggins were basically supposed to carrry the Wolves this year down the stretch and Rubio showed up to help them out. Their other vets were young fringe starters at best in Dieng and Bazz plus their top vet player was Brandon Rush who has never averaged 28mpg for any season in his career. I have faith those guys can get a lot better all around especially Towns. The guy did put up 25-12 and was willing to pass the ball. I don't see Wiggins and Towns or Lavine as selfish players just guys that either haven't figured it out or have the skills or evolved BBIQ yet to get there. I think each year Wiggins has taken legit steps towards becoming a better passer and decision maker. It's gonna take him a while though.

It's fair to criticize these young guys because you can see the talent they have. Sometimes it's hard to know just how much we should be expecting from them. We ask a lot from them and they didn't have a ton of help this season. Let's hope they work on their game and Thibs and Layden can add and develop some supporting players as well. To me the Bucks Roster is certainly deeper than the Wolves right now even without Parker.

I think we'll be fine in the long run. Towns and Wiggins will develop the BBIQ that will help them make their teammates better on both sides of the all. This thread was just wondering how the Bucks are where they are compared to us because of the youth in their starting lineup and it's because their best player does the little things on both sides of the ball that rub off on teammates and help them play better themselves. Towns and Wiggins are great at getting theirs. Now they need to learn how to make the guys around them better off their great play so the team actually becomes a good team and isn't just two guys putting up stats. They got crowned a little early as impact stars and at times played like it not really focusing on the team. The stats will be there anyway. Focus on making your teammates better and you'll go a lot further in the W-L column.

[Lipoli390]

Q is right that the Bucks success this season underscores the point that youth isn't a reasonable excuse for the Wolves bottom 3 finish in the West. Beyond that, I really don't have a handle on the core problem or problems with our team. I agree with those who point to Giannis not just "getting his", but also making his teammates better. However, I don't think it's as mysterious or nonquantifiable as some might think.

Actually, you can see what Giannis does in his stat line, which consistently includes big-time rebounding, steals and assists in addition to scoring. Then look at Wiggins' numbers and you see scoring and not much more. I'll give KAT credit for a stat line that consistently shows dominance in both scoring AND rebounding. But he doesn't block shots or draw charges as much as he should. The eye test confirms that he's chronically late closing out on shooters in the lane and rarely steps in to block the path of shootiners driving in the paint. And of course, the eye test way too often reveals Wiggins simply watching loose balls bound away or letting less athletic players get around him with ease.

I want to be optimistic, but I'm concerned. The beast within is either there or not. We have to hope that the beast is buried somewhere in the character of our two cornerstone players and that it has yet to be drawn out. I've seen enough from KAT fighting inside for position, fighting his way to the basket for buckets and battling hard on the boards to believe that the beast is there and simply needs to be channeled into the defensive side of the ball beyond defensive rebounding. I'm more concerned about Wiggins, although I saw some good signs from him hitting big shots and improving his free-throw shooting.

So let's see if KAT can add that final defensive piece to his already impressive scoring and rebounding. I expect to see more blocked shots, steals and charge draws next season as statistical signs that he's taken that next step. Let's also see if Wiggins can take the same sort of step in his 4th season that Giannis took in his. If he does, we should see that next step show up in his rebounding, steals and assists as well as his advanced defensive stats. In other words, if these two are "making their teammates better" we'll see evidence in their individual stats.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I don't like cheap basketball players. So many see the clip of Giannis getting ejected vs. the Bulls in 2015 playoffs for tackling Mike Dunleavy as a cheap move from a frustrated player getting killed.

I commended him at the time. The Bucks were a young team tasting the playoffs for the first time. It wasn't going to be their last trip there... and Giannis let people know they weren't going to be punked. What has been forgotten about that game is that Mike Dunleavy hit/punched Bucks players in the face/neck at least three times in that game... without ever getting caught.

Once. Accident. Twice. Coincidence? 3x... retaliation is necessary. In any case, my appreciation grew for Giannis that day. He's already an All NBA 2nd team player.

- Only 22.
- Improved A LOT every single season. Just check out PER... 10.8 < 14.8 < 18.8 < 26.0. His "do shit" stats keep going up too.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

While I agree with Khans that Giannis does a lot of things to help make his team mates better (he averaged over 5 assists per game for example), it really comes down to a commitment to defense. Until KAT and Wiggins make a commitment to that side of the floor, we will struggle. We were a top 10 offense this past year and it will likely only get better as these guys begin to hit their peak years as scorers. So even when they were playing hero ball and not making the extra pass, we still managed to score enough points on most nights.

Thibs did these guys no favors by having them play tons and tons of minutes, without ever benching them for poor effort/defense. That would have done two things: 1) provide a negative reinforcement for poor defense, and 2) conserve some energy so that they would be fresher in 4th quarters.

Somehow Milwaukee was 19th in defensive efficiency this year, which isn't great, but considering all the youth and inexperience on their team, isn't bad either. That's all I wanted from our guys this year - to go from horrible to passable. It didn't happen.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I don't like cheap basketball players. So many see the clip of Giannis getting ejected vs. the Bulls in 2015 playoffs for tackling Mike Dunleavy as a cheap move from a frustrated player getting killed.

I commended him at the time. The Bucks were a young team tasting the playoffs for the first time. It wasn't going to be their last trip there... and Giannis let people know they weren't going to be punked. What has been forgotten about that game is that Mike Dunleavy hit/punched Bucks players in the face/neck at least three times in that game... without ever getting caught.

Once. Accident. Twice. Coincidence? 3x... retaliation is necessary. In any case, my appreciation grew for Giannis that day. He's already an All NBA 2nd team player.

- Only 22.
- Improved A LOT every single season. Just check out PER... 10.8 < 14.8 < 18.8 < 26.0. His "do shit" stats keep going up too.

It's funny that he was considered "raw" when in fact he has an extremely good feel for the game and that became evident fairly quickly. His handles and passing certainly belie the raw label. Sure, his outside shot isn't great, but at this point he's pretty much above average at everything except outside shooting.

[BloopOracle]

Towns and Wig need more time, Giannis had plenty of questions his 2nd year as well. Their trajectory is just fine imo and they will look much better when we have actual NBA players around them. Wig needs to take a god damn charge once in awhile though.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Towns and Wig need more time, Giannis had plenty of questions his 2nd year as well. Their trajectory is just fine imo and they will look much better when we have actual NBA players around them. Wig needs to take a god damn charge once in awhile though.

Or is it the other way around? When KAT and Wigs start doing the little things, both offensively and defensively, will they make the other guys around them look more like actual NBA players? Aldrich and Rush for example looked very much like solid rotation players last year, yet this year fell off a cliff.