khans2k5 wrote:I'd say the Noel trade was a failure. He traded a young all-star talent in Holliday for Noel who I just don't see all-star potential out of. Maybe he has to be a defensive anchor like Gobert at C to show it, but so far next to Okafor he's not an all-star. That trade basically came about because of the failed draft choice that was MCW. It's hard to know the domino effect that had. Noel was never going to be a superstar with his offense or lack thereof so that move to me was a failure driven by the drafting of MCW and they would have been better off keeping Holiday (who's injuries would not have affected their tanking) and using their picks on other players.
To be fair, I don't if MCW could be labeled a "failure."
The guy was picked 11th. And he's still starting in the NBA. By they way, that draft was supposed to be a bad one. A. Bennett going #1 kinda proves that. But I think it has more decent NBA players than most people would have expected.
At least 1/2 of the 1st round is a legit NBA player. And A. Crabbe led off the 2nd round and he's a good rotation guy now, too.
They traded him away for basically nothing so they could tank better because he wasn't good enough to help them meet their long-term goals. How is that not a draft failure for them? MCW may not be a failure, but their drafting of him is a failure given where they are today and the fact he's not even on the team anymore and they got little back for him.
Oh. Gotcha.
I misinterpreted your post to mean MCW was the failure.
khans2k5 wrote:I'd say the Noel trade was a failure. He traded a young all-star talent in Holliday for Noel who I just don't see all-star potential out of. Maybe he has to be a defensive anchor like Gobert at C to show it, but so far next to Okafor he's not an all-star. That trade basically came about because of the failed draft choice that was MCW. It's hard to know the domino effect that had. Noel was never going to be a superstar with his offense or lack thereof so that move to me was a failure driven by the drafting of MCW and they would have been better off keeping Holiday (who's injuries would not have affected their tanking) and using their picks on other players.
I think they won that trade noel has played more games than jrue has and noel missed a whole season. Jrue is not the same player he used to be, while noel is a good defensive player on the cheap. You are right they might of screwed up the MCW pick but they got possibly a top 4 pick out of a below average starting pg.
I feel like they have done great at getting assets.
They could have 3 lottery picks this year, they already have 2 young posts (and embiid what they got unlucky with). The best euro prospect.
I am not saying it isn't a disservice to their fans but I think they have close to the brightest future of non playoff teams.
If the Sixers get ben Simmons the NBA should be scared shitless, because the nba will be in trouble if the process works.
khans2k5 wrote:I'd say the Noel trade was a failure. He traded a young all-star talent in Holliday for Noel who I just don't see all-star potential out of. Maybe he has to be a defensive anchor like Gobert at C to show it, but so far next to Okafor he's not an all-star. That trade basically came about because of the failed draft choice that was MCW. It's hard to know the domino effect that had. Noel was never going to be a superstar with his offense or lack thereof so that move to me was a failure driven by the drafting of MCW and they would have been better off keeping Holiday (who's injuries would not have affected their tanking) and using their picks on other players.
To be fair, I don't if MCW could be labeled a "failure."
The guy was picked 11th. And he's still starting in the NBA. By they way, that draft was supposed to be a bad one. A. Bennett going #1 kinda proves that. But I think it has more decent NBA players than most people would have expected.
At least 1/2 of the 1st round is a legit NBA player. And A. Crabbe led off the 2nd round and he's a good rotation guy now, too.
They traded him away for basically nothing so they could tank better because he wasn't good enough to help them meet their long-term goals. How is that not a draft failure for them? MCW may not be a failure, but their drafting of him is a failure given where they are today and the fact he's not even on the team anymore and they got little back for him.
for nothing? they picked him at no.11 and they have Lakers pick for him which is protected 1-3 this and next year and 2018 completely unprotected, that pick is way more valuable than MCW. That was pretty damn good trade by Hinkie.
khans2k5 wrote:I'd say the Noel trade was a failure. He traded a young all-star talent in Holliday for Noel who I just don't see all-star potential out of. Maybe he has to be a defensive anchor like Gobert at C to show it, but so far next to Okafor he's not an all-star. That trade basically came about because of the failed draft choice that was MCW. It's hard to know the domino effect that had. Noel was never going to be a superstar with his offense or lack thereof so that move to me was a failure driven by the drafting of MCW and they would have been better off keeping Holiday (who's injuries would not have affected their tanking) and using their picks on other players.
To be fair, I don't if MCW could be labeled a "failure."
The guy was picked 11th. And he's still starting in the NBA. By they way, that draft was supposed to be a bad one. A. Bennett going #1 kinda proves that. But I think it has more decent NBA players than most people would have expected.
At least 1/2 of the 1st round is a legit NBA player. And A. Crabbe led off the 2nd round and he's a good rotation guy now, too.
They traded him away for basically nothing so they could tank better because he wasn't good enough to help them meet their long-term goals. How is that not a draft failure for them? MCW may not be a failure, but their drafting of him is a failure given where they are today and the fact he's not even on the team anymore and they got little back for him.
for nothing? they picked him at no.11 and they have Lakers pick for him which is protected 1-3 this and next year and 2018 completely unprotected, that pick is way more valuable than MCW. That was pretty damn good trade by Hinkie.
The best they can get is the 4th pick in a 3 player draft this year (1 being a big man). Let's see who the pick is before we declare it better than MCW. They could just as easily draft the next Bennett with the pick than find a superstar and if they find an average player then they lose the deal because they got worse for even longer because of it.
It sounds like the problem with the Sixers was they were a joke of an organization because Hienke didn't really know what He was doing and they didn't have enough of the right people around the team. I think he was working his plan well but he didn't have the people around him to have a good organization. That's why Colagelo was brought in and now they have D'Antoni around to help Brown out. It's going to be an interesting next few months over there.
I side with kekgeek on this one...I think Hinkie's strategy could turn out to be successful in a scary way. If I were a season ticket holder, I might be going to games only to watch the development of Okafor and Noel (and the other team, of course) and my seats might be empty a few nights. But I would be excited about the future and holding on to my seats (which are probably much closer to center court now than they were 3 years ago. Noel, Okafor, Saric (and 3-4 other Euro stashes who have some promise) and a slew of lottery picks this year and next is an exciting situation. I think we would be having a lot of fun projecting the future if that were our team.
I'm looking forward to sitting in my seats at Target Center for the 2019-20 NBA finals between the Wolves and the Sixers!
khans2k5 wrote:I'd say the Noel trade was a failure. He traded a young all-star talent in Holliday for Noel who I just don't see all-star potential out of. Maybe he has to be a defensive anchor like Gobert at C to show it, but so far next to Okafor he's not an all-star. That trade basically came about because of the failed draft choice that was MCW. It's hard to know the domino effect that had. Noel was never going to be a superstar with his offense or lack thereof so that move to me was a failure driven by the drafting of MCW and they would have been better off keeping Holiday (who's injuries would not have affected their tanking) and using their picks on other players.
To be fair, I don't if MCW could be labeled a "failure."
The guy was picked 11th. And he's still starting in the NBA. By they way, that draft was supposed to be a bad one. A. Bennett going #1 kinda proves that. But I think it has more decent NBA players than most people would have expected.
At least 1/2 of the 1st round is a legit NBA player. And A. Crabbe led off the 2nd round and he's a good rotation guy now, too.
They traded him away for basically nothing so they could tank better because he wasn't good enough to help them meet their long-term goals. How is that not a draft failure for them? MCW may not be a failure, but their drafting of him is a failure given where they are today and the fact he's not even on the team anymore and they got little back for him.
for nothing? they picked him at no.11 and they have Lakers pick for him which is protected 1-3 this and next year and 2018 completely unprotected, that pick is way more valuable than MCW. That was pretty damn good trade by Hinkie.
The best they can get is the 4th pick in a 3 player draft this year (1 being a big man). Let's see who the pick is before we declare it better than MCW. They could just as easily draft the next Bennett with the pick than find a superstar and if they find an average player then they lose the deal because they got worse for even longer because of it.
khans2k5 wrote:
m4gor wrote:
khans2k5 wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
khans2k5 wrote:I'd say the Noel trade was a failure. He traded a young all-star talent in Holliday for Noel who I just don't see all-star potential out of. Maybe he has to be a defensive anchor like Gobert at C to show it, but so far next to Okafor he's not an all-star. That trade basically came about because of the failed draft choice that was MCW. It's hard to know the domino effect that had. Noel was never going to be a superstar with his offense or lack thereof so that move to me was a failure driven by the drafting of MCW and they would have been better off keeping Holiday (who's injuries would not have affected their tanking) and using their picks on other players.
To be fair, I don't if MCW could be labeled a "failure."
The guy was picked 11th. And he's still starting in the NBA. By they way, that draft was supposed to be a bad one. A. Bennett going #1 kinda proves that. But I think it has more decent NBA players than most people would have expected.
At least 1/2 of the 1st round is a legit NBA player. And A. Crabbe led off the 2nd round and he's a good rotation guy now, too.
They traded him away for basically nothing so they could tank better because he wasn't good enough to help them meet their long-term goals. How is that not a draft failure for them? MCW may not be a failure, but their drafting of him is a failure given where they are today and the fact he's not even on the team anymore and they got little back for him.
for nothing? they picked him at no.11 and they have Lakers pick for him which is protected 1-3 this and next year and 2018 completely unprotected, that pick is way more valuable than MCW. That was pretty damn good trade by Hinkie.
The best they can get is the 4th pick in a 3 player draft this year (1 being a big man). Let's see who the pick is before we declare it better than MCW. They could just as easily draft the next Bennett with the pick than find a superstar and if they find an average player then they lose the deal because they got worse for even longer because of it.
You can't wait (and don't have to wait) on draft picks to decide if the trade was good for 76ers. The whole plan is to acquire picks that could turn into superstars, that's what the trade was. They traded MCW, a starting quality but still below average PG, for the opportunity to draft a star. That's a win for the 76ers.
People may disagree with the strategy on principle but if the goal is to win a championship (not just be competitive) this is probably the quickest route for non destination teams. The list of teams stuck between rebuilding and being competitive for extended periods of time is long, just look at the wolves.
I have to agree with the guys who think the Sixers won the MCW trade, but I'm admittedly not an MCW fan. I like him as a defender, but don't like his offensive game at all. He's a poor shooter and consistently puts up bad assist to turnover ratios. I never saw him as a lottery pick, and to get potentially a high lottery pick for him is grand theft larceny.
khans2k5 wrote:I'd say the Noel trade was a failure. He traded a young all-star talent in Holliday for Noel who I just don't see all-star potential out of. Maybe he has to be a defensive anchor like Gobert at C to show it, but so far next to Okafor he's not an all-star. That trade basically came about because of the failed draft choice that was MCW. It's hard to know the domino effect that had. Noel was never going to be a superstar with his offense or lack thereof so that move to me was a failure driven by the drafting of MCW and they would have been better off keeping Holiday (who's injuries would not have affected their tanking) and using their picks on other players.
To be fair, I don't if MCW could be labeled a "failure."
The guy was picked 11th. And he's still starting in the NBA. By they way, that draft was supposed to be a bad one. A. Bennett going #1 kinda proves that. But I think it has more decent NBA players than most people would have expected.
At least 1/2 of the 1st round is a legit NBA player. And A. Crabbe led off the 2nd round and he's a good rotation guy now, too.
They traded him away for basically nothing so they could tank better because he wasn't good enough to help them meet their long-term goals. How is that not a draft failure for them? MCW may not be a failure, but their drafting of him is a failure given where they are today and the fact he's not even on the team anymore and they got little back for him.
for nothing? they picked him at no.11 and they have Lakers pick for him which is protected 1-3 this and next year and 2018 completely unprotected, that pick is way more valuable than MCW. That was pretty damn good trade by Hinkie.
The best they can get is the 4th pick in a 3 player draft this year (1 being a big man). Let's see who the pick is before we declare it better than MCW. They could just as easily draft the next Bennett with the pick than find a superstar and if they find an average player then they lose the deal because they got worse for even longer because of it.
khans2k5 wrote:
m4gor wrote:
khans2k5 wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
khans2k5 wrote:I'd say the Noel trade was a failure. He traded a young all-star talent in Holliday for Noel who I just don't see all-star potential out of. Maybe he has to be a defensive anchor like Gobert at C to show it, but so far next to Okafor he's not an all-star. That trade basically came about because of the failed draft choice that was MCW. It's hard to know the domino effect that had. Noel was never going to be a superstar with his offense or lack thereof so that move to me was a failure driven by the drafting of MCW and they would have been better off keeping Holiday (who's injuries would not have affected their tanking) and using their picks on other players.
To be fair, I don't if MCW could be labeled a "failure."
The guy was picked 11th. And he's still starting in the NBA. By they way, that draft was supposed to be a bad one. A. Bennett going #1 kinda proves that. But I think it has more decent NBA players than most people would have expected.
At least 1/2 of the 1st round is a legit NBA player. And A. Crabbe led off the 2nd round and he's a good rotation guy now, too.
They traded him away for basically nothing so they could tank better because he wasn't good enough to help them meet their long-term goals. How is that not a draft failure for them? MCW may not be a failure, but their drafting of him is a failure given where they are today and the fact he's not even on the team anymore and they got little back for him.
for nothing? they picked him at no.11 and they have Lakers pick for him which is protected 1-3 this and next year and 2018 completely unprotected, that pick is way more valuable than MCW. That was pretty damn good trade by Hinkie.
The best they can get is the 4th pick in a 3 player draft this year (1 being a big man). Let's see who the pick is before we declare it better than MCW. They could just as easily draft the next Bennett with the pick than find a superstar and if they find an average player then they lose the deal because they got worse for even longer because of it.
You can't wait (and don't have to wait) on draft picks to decide if the trade was good for 76ers. The whole plan is to acquire picks that could turn into superstars, that's what the trade was. They traded MCW, a starting quality but still below average PG, for the opportunity to draft a star. That's a win for the 76ers.
People may disagree with the strategy on principle but if the goal is to win a championship (not just be competitive) this is probably the quickest route for non destination teams. The list of teams stuck between rebuilding and being competitive for extended periods of time is long, just look at the wolves.
That's a ridiculous stance to take. If they take a bust with the Lakers pick in the top 5 that becomes an epic fail. I don't get this idea that the draft pick somehow matters more than who they actually take with it. Unless they use it as a trade piece the only way to evaluate it properly is who they get with the pick. Where the pick lands literally could not matter any less. It's who you actually get that matters and that's TBD.
Interesting move and comments. I would have been for just staying the course for the rest of the season and looking for big imporvement from draft and FA. I would have likely went the Knick route of filling the roster out around the young players with solid rotation players that fill gaps and are not headcases. (Derrick Williams was a bad signing for them)
