Disagreements! Debates! -- Tracker

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Blake Griffin- .596 TS%, .579 eFG%

Kevin Love- .594 TS%, .533 eFG%

So, what do these stats mean? That Griffin's the better shooter between the two, or that he's the better player between the two? Or that these advanced stats don't tell the tale about these guys on offense. Love has Griffin dominated in WS, but that likely has rebounds and assists factored in as well. But according to TS% and eFG%, Griffin is the more affective shooter. In all honesty, I don't give a shit about your advanced stats. They're misleading and for some, it's all they can base their argument around.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Cam, anytime that you post beal's and ariza's stats, just post their TS%, eFG%, and WS (or WS/48) also. It'll save me time, and that way you can just prove yourself wrong without my involvement.

I remember that debate.

You did your usual schtick. And, you used a bunch of advanced stats from last season to prove Ariza was one of the top 3 players on Washington. Then, I pointed out that using some of those same stats that Gortat, Nene and Wall were better... bumping Ariza down to #4.

Fun with stats.

Hey, well atleast you finally learned that Ariza is better that Beal.

And you learned that despite your best attempts to belittle Camden about Washington's "top 3" players according to your criteria... you were wrong.

Ariza was actually 5th. I forgot Martell Webster also posted better stats in a lot of those same advanced metrics you love so much.

LMAO, Webster.........i never knew you for a Webster fan. You know that Nene and Webster have played significantly (about 40%) less time than those other people that we are talking about, right?

See Abe, if you blindly look at advanced stats and don't bother to put them into context, people might end up with the same conclusion that you just came to using them.

This is a perfect example of people using advanced stats very poorly. Interesting that you would provide such an effective example.

What?

The initial debate YOU started compared their stats from last season.

And, Ariza played FEWER minutes than all of the people with several better advanced stats than him:
Wall. Beal. Webster. Nene. Gortat. (yes... even Nene)

Is that the type of context you're railing about? Good lord man.

[markkbu [enjin:6588958]]

Abe, you seem to be confusing yourself a bit This conversation started with me saying that Azira is the third best player on the Wizards. There is more than enough evidence to back that statement this year. So, I have obviously been correct on that point. Could that change in the future? Sure, but I doubt it. Should that change, I will be more than happy to chat about it. Just at this point, he is clearly one of the top 3 performers on the team.

(3rd in scoring, 2nd in rebounding, 4th in assist per game 3rd in total assists, 1st in steals, tied for 1st on made 3 ptrs, tied for 2nd in minutes, probably the most efficient scorer of the 4 Wizards that carry the vast majority of the minute load (him and gorat are very close on this)



The statistical analysis in the previous conversation started when comparing Beal to Ariza. Scoring efficiency is very important when speaking of Beal because scoring is his whole schtick. (he is an ok passer too) Most everything else, he isn't good at. Ariza does many things well (rebounding, defense, effieicnt scorer, range, decent passer for a SF). Because Ariza is much better at most things, the easiest way to show that Ariza is better than Beal overall, is to show that Azira is better than Beal in Beal's own specialty (scoring).

i hope that you understand that I am providing context within which the statistical analysis is pertinent.

Since we know that they both play alot and both get a decent number of shots, now all that needs to be done is to show that Ariza is a much more efficient scorer than Beal, which is very easy to do.

TS% eFG%
Azira .560 .548
Beal .505 .480

follow that with a quick check of WS/48 (which is very applicable because they play about the same number of minutes) Azira .90 Beal .26 .

You see the advanced stat of WS/48 merely COMFIRMED all the other evidence.

then, a bit of further digging will show Beal is in the bottom 3rd in efficiency of SGs who get a decent amount of playing time. So on a relative scale, we know that Beal is a chucker.

So Azira is good at a number of things and Beal hurts his team with the majority of his possessions.

I hope that this assists you in clarifying the different topics that were being discussed simultaneously and the associated arguments.