Two Best and Two Worst

[Carlos Danger]

I'll follow the lead of you guys and exclude guys who haven't played much. Here are my picks:

2 Best: Bazz and Wiggins.
Reason: Both are at the top of the team in Points Scored. Both young with big upsides. I believe both are building blocks. I realize advanced stats don't like Wiggins so far. But I choose to ignore that right now as those stats don't match my eyes. I'm sure if we wanted to make a trade, many teams would be interested in Wiggins - regardless of what his PER or Win Shares show as of this moment.

2 Worst: Budinger and Hummel.
Reason: Same as above. I like both of these guys and realize they can be effective role players. But if I have to pick two guys that if we lost, wouldn't hurt the immediate or future outlook - those would be the two. Bud has come on the last couple games and is close to changing my mind. I could see flipping him with Bennett if things stay the same as we've seen recently.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I'll follow the lead of you guys and exclude guys who haven't played much. Here are my picks:

2 Best: Bazz and Wiggins.
Reason: Both are at the top of the team in Points Scored. Both young with big upsides. I believe both are building blocks. I realize advanced stats don't like Wiggins so far. But I choose to ignore that right now as those stats don't match my eyes. I'm sure if we wanted to make a trade, many teams would be interested in Wiggins - regardless of what his PER or Win Shares show as of this moment.

2 Worst: Budinger and Hummel.
Reason: Same as above. I like both of these guys and realize they can be effective role players. But if I have to pick two guys that if we lost, wouldn't hurt the immediate or future outlook - those would be the two. Bud has come on the last couple games and is close to changing my mind. I could see flipping him with Bennett if things stay the same as we've seen recently.

Mmm, You seem to be putting some weight on future value (or lack thereof) versus current results, which obviously favors a player like Wiggins, whom we all believe will eventually be a good player (just how good is what is up for debate).

I interpreted your original question as based purely on performance to date and not necessarily future value.

[thedoper]

2 best: Bazz and ?????

I really can't think of anyone else better than OK.

2 worst: Pek and Thad.

We have gotten nothing inside this year and any team with size has completely dominated us. Pek because his injury which started as a minor mystery has turned into a mess.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

In the Wolves' case, you almost need to ignore the Plus/Minus metrics this season because a) it's still not a very large sample size, and b) because of how collectively bad we are as a team.

Therefore, I'm putting 100% of my weight on the individual box score volume/efficiency based metrics, such as PER, Win Shares, and Wins Produced. And based on those metrics, Gorgui Dieng and Shabazz Muhammed have been our best players so far.

As for our worst, it's Zach LaVine and Andrew Wiggins.

Before another debate rages, let me emphasize that this is based on performance to date, not an assessment of future performance and value! I sincerely hope and expect that LaVine and Wiggins will improve.

Merry Christmas!

[Carlos Danger]

Mmm, You seem to be putting some weight on future value (or lack thereof) versus current results, which obviously favors a player like Wiggins, whom we all believe will eventually be a good player (just how good is what is up for debate).

I interpreted your original question as based purely on performance to date and not necessarily future value.

I did consider future value as part of my process (thinking in the context of who other teams would want on our team). But my stated metric was total points scored. Bazz and Wiggins are #1 and #2. You can argue that there is more to the game than just points scored. But the whole point of this is there are many ways to value a player. (Also, if you go back year by year, I think a guy could make a pretty strong case that the Wolves top scorer in points was the best player each year). Again - no right answers here - that's just how I did it.

[60WinTim]

I prefer to measure performance to date compared to expected performance to date.

Bazz is the hands down winner, because many of us thought he might not crack the rotation. While injuries have helped clear the path, he has taken full advantage of the opportunity.

So who else is playing better than I thought they would? I have a tough time coming up with someone who deserves it, so I am going with Zach. I did not expect him to see playing time this year. And it has been a struggle ever since he was forced into playing. But he has steadily improved along the way and is giving us way more than I thought he would this year. I fully expect Flip to continue giving him playing time once our injured guys come back.

Both Young and Bennett have seriously disappointed me this year. I had expected so much more from both of them, and neither has delivered.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I guess I'm confused about what the question was. I thought it was who has been the Wolves BEST player in the 2014-15 NBA season. That's without taking into consideration what their futures were. I also didn't think it was "who surprised us the most". So, I'll answer several categories like they're Oscar nominees.

Best this season: Gorgui Dieng and Shabazz Muhammad (honorable mention to Mo Williams)

Worst this season: Anthony Bennett and Chase Budinger

Most potential going forward: Andrew Wiggins and Zach LaVine

Biggest disappointment (aside from injuries): Thaddeus Young and Flip Saunders (the coach)

Most surprising player: Jeff Adrien (Really like his energy, toughness, attitude and overall gritty nature. And he's built like a tank. Seems like a guy that could stick here.)

[Carlos Danger]

I guess I'm confused about what the question was. I thought it was who has been the Wolves BEST player in the 2014-15 NBA season. That's without taking into consideration what their futures were. I also didn't think it was "who surprised us the most".

The question was purposely ambiguous "best player" and "worst player". If I said who has the best PER or Win Shares or Points Scored, then everyone would have answered the same - right? :-) I just wanted to see how some people think and evaluate. Again - no right or wrong answers. It's how each person defines "best" and "worst" that's fun (at least for me).

[KiwiMatt]

Best - Deing and Bazz.

I loved these two picks in last years draft and I love them even more now. Our two sophomores have developed into starters. Bazz is simply unstoppable at times. He is an absolute best on the offensive end and is the second best rebounder on this team behind Dieng. Love his low post moves and offensive rebounding. The explosive jump he has is unreal. Dieng is just solid game in game out. Most nights he is simply overwhelmed by bigger front courts (and it doesn't help that our PF's can rebound and defend) but he holds his own. I also love that he hits his FT's.

Worst - Budinger and GR3.

Bud has looked like the old Bud the last two games, but prior to that he has looked terrible. He has lost all his quickness and defensively he is the worst of our wings. Unfortunately when his shot isn't falling he is a liability. I'm hoping he regains consistency and with Brewer gone he has the chance to step up and be that veteran wing whis squad needs. Although GR3 has only been fed scrap minutes I haven't liked what I've seen. He has the worst handle out of all our wings and I just fail to see him ever finding a role in the NBA, At this stage he needs some time in the DLeague to find his niche. Unfortunately with two guards out injured and Brewer gone they need him.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Quick Tally so Far

Best Votes
8 Bazz
3 Dieng
2 Wiggins
1 Adrien
1 Zach

Worst Votes
4 Bud
3 Thad
2 Zach
2 Bennett
1 Pek
1 Wiggins
1 GR3

The only common denominator seems to be Bazz as one of the best players. Holy cow. Let's just take a minute to soak in that the board (which never agrees on anything) agrees that Shabbazz freaking Muhammad has been our best player so far this season. Mind boggling.

While I think it's interesting to think about different criteria, taking into consideration trade value, potential, or performance based on expectation differentiates what we're comparing too much. I think we should stay focused on a narrow interpretation of the criteria so we're not comparing apples and oranges. Most seem to have gone with just the 27 game sample itself, who have been the best two and worst two players in those 27 games, so I'd encourage us to stick to that metric.

And going by that measure, I'd have to say I'd be surprised if Wiggins still got two votes for best and if LaVine got any for best. By most statistical measures (check the charts I posted earlier in the thread), they are both performing at or near the bottom of the team. Again, they're rookies, and both in tough situations, especially Zach, but by the numbers, it's really tough to argue that they have been the best.

And again, going by the numbers, it's really hard to argue that Zach hasn't had one of the worst seasons on the team so far. I don't want to be a grinch, but he's got the worst PER on our team. 82games has him ranked at the worst on the team by their metrics. His shooting percentages and PPS are among the worst on the team (with Bud and Bennett). His A/TO ratio is LAST IN THE LEAGUE among PGs and lower than some of our bigs (do yourself a favor and don't look at who has the best A/TO ratio in the league so far). He's had the worst season OF ANY PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE in real plus-minus. And while he's looked good scoring the ball a couple times, the eye test backs up what the numbers suggest, our offense rarely functions smoothly or effectively when he's running the point. Again, it's not the kid's fault. He's never played the point, he's 19 and not ready to start anywhere, and he's playing in the West. His defense has been better than I thought, and he's got some good scoring instincts. So I still have hope for his future (at the 2). But if we're making an objective decision based specifically on performance in these 27 games, I can't see how anybody could NOT pick Zach as having had one of the two worst seasons so far for our team.