The dumb and stupid Wiggins thread

[mjs34]

The wolves are twenty games into the season. Might be a little early to be calling out who this kid can become. He is scoring over ten points a game effortlessly, and while not getting any respect from officials. I think 20 pts a night is likely by next season. The guy is playing the best wing defender on the other team as well. Top rookies all go through there struggles trying to figure out what does and doesn't work in this league. He has such an advantage with quickness, and athleticism, that it is almost impossible for him to not reach allstar status. He has a very good shooting form, quick first step, and incredible lift. The only thing he needs is to tighten up his handle. He even has a nice spin move already. If Brewer can get away with putting the ball on the deck, I am sure WIggins will figure it out.

I don't understand the love for Drummond. Other than his size, he looks like Robin Lopez without the motor. I keep hearing the hype and then every time I watch him, I come away disappointed.

[bleedspeed]

sjm - I would love to see flip have Wiggins backup Lavine at PG while Mo is out. He can't be worse then Brewer and it would force him to handle the ball more in game situations.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Drummond has regressed this season. And that's alarming.

But he was a legit presence last season and a far cry from Robin Lopez. The smart money was seeing similar improvement in year 3 since he was so raw to begin with. It hasn't happened for whatever reason and the apprehension about him is growing especially considering the free throw shooting woes that are already holding him back.

To be fair, that's the one area that continues to improve and he's at 46% right now... so that makes 4 straight seasons of improvement.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

"He is scoring over ten points a game effortlessly, and while not getting any respect from officials."

Ehh, this isn't really true. His offense to this point isn't effortless. It's tough. It comes on mid-range jumpers (step-backs, pull-ups, off pin downs) and in post-up opportunities. He mostly settles for tough jumpers. I'd get it if he was a menace in transition and/or killing it on the glass by using his physical gifts, but he's not. And his handle, or lack thereof, keeps him away from the rim. That's why his spin move begins too early resulting in floaters instead of dunks/layups.

And offensively, he's averaging about 5 FTAs per game. That's not too shabby for a rookie.

[bleedspeed]

Drummond has regressed this season. And that's alarming.

But he was a legit presence last season and a far cry from Robin Lopez. The smart money was seeing similar improvement in year 3 since he was so raw to begin with. It hasn't happened for whatever reason and the apprehension about him is growing especially considering the free throw shooting woes that are already holding him back.

To be fair, that's the one area that continues to improve and he's at 46% right now... so that makes 4 straight seasons of improvement.

He also started off horribly and is coming on now. Last 10 games he is averaging 14 pts, 12 boards, 2 blocks and a steal on 51% shoot in 31 minutes a night. Not bad for a 21 year old center with a career 59% FG%.

[AbeVigodaLive]

"He is scoring over ten points a game effortlessly, and while not getting any respect from officials."

Ehh, this isn't really true. His offense to this point isn't effortless. It's tough. It comes on mid-range jumpers (step-backs, pull-ups, off pin downs) and in post-up opportunities. He mostly settles for tough jumpers. I'd get it if he was a menace in transition and/or killing it on the glass by using his physical gifts, but he's not. And his handle, or lack thereof, keeps him away from the rim. That's why his spin move begins too early resulting in floaters instead of dunks/layups.

And offensively, he's averaging about 5 FTAs per game. That's not too shabby for a rookie.

Is it another example of hope skewing what everybody else is seeing?

Wiggins is 13th on the team in TS% at 46%. So as Camden notes, his scoring is definitely not "effortless"... it's more like "painfully difficult" at this point. The league average for TS% is 54%...

We all know that Wiggins has talent. He's a freak in some ways. But, his on-court performance right now is closer to the worst in the league than it is the best. Actually, that's not giving a lot of average players enough respect. Wiggins' PER is below 9.

Yes. He's young. And he's raw. And he's playing with bad players on a bad team. But it would be disingenuous to claim he's going to be alright based on anything we've seen from him yet. We're still in the "but he has so much promise" camp at this point because he's simply not been very good.

We have about 60 games to hopefully see improvement. And then you hope for more improvement in year 2. And then more... and more...

But it's not a guarantee. Not even close.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I have faith in Wiggins' future ball handling abilities so long as Ryan Saunders is on our staff. There's been nothing but good things said about his role in the development of Wall and Beal in Washington. Give him and offseason or two and I think he will be a capable ball handler.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

It's fair to throw into the mix that Wall and Beal both had much better handles than Wiggins does when they were his age. Did Saunders have something to do with the improvement? Sure, I won't doubt that, but there has to be something to work with. For instance, I bet Saunders helps LaVine grow immensely. Zach has a capable handle that can be made better. Wiggins has a very poor handle. Can he go from below average to average or better? That's the franchise question.

(Know who has a decent handle? Jabari Parker. Okay, okay, I'm done.)

[TAFKASP]

Kevin Love? Nobody was going to go there? :thumb:

[mjs34]

It's fair to throw into the mix that Wall and Beal both had much better handles than Wiggins does when they were his age. Did Saunders have something to do with the improvement? Sure, I won't doubt that, but there has to be something to work with. For instance, I bet Saunders helps LaVine grow immensely. Zach has a capable handle that can be made better. Wiggins has a very poor handle. Can he go from below average to average or better? That's the franchise question.

(Know who has a decent handle? Jabari Parker. Okay, okay, I'm done.)

Considering they are both half his size, I would expect them to have better handles. You might want to go back and look at their first 20 games before you start putting them on that pedestal. Trust me, it wasn't any better than AW, and in Beals' case, considerably worse.

By effortless, I mean he can pull up and get his jumper off against anybody. The effort comes when trying to drive to basket.

Jabari is so good that until about the last 5 games, he was less efficient offensively than AW was, and that was supposed to be a no-contest. Just like the difference in their D, which actually is a no-contest. Young shut Parker down man on man, and Young is absolutely atrocious on D.

And let's not forget that Wall, Beal, and Parker are playing in the Leastern conference.

I would argue that our coaching staff is screwing AW up by continually harping on him to be more aggressive. Almost every time AW gets the ball on the wing, the defense automatically roles a big over to help, including SA. AW should be passing that ball off in that situation, like he was doing earlier in the season, rather than driving into a packed painted area.