Minnesota Sports Forum

You can keep 15, but only dress 12 for any given game so having a cheap 2nd round pick with first round talent practicing with the team is exactly what those last 3 spots are for. Odds are he'd also be spending a lot of time in the D League as well, but it'd be important to sign him so he could be called up if we get some injuries. It's also a lot better to have a rookie not suiting up than a veteran who is expecting to play. Who else are you not going to suit up other than Hummel if you keep JJ and can't sign GR3? Bazz is most likely the other one, but I don't see JJ taking kindly to getting benched full-time. Right now we are most likely looking at:

Ricky/Mo
Martin/Brewer/Lavine
Wiggins/Bud
Thad/Bennett
Pek/Dieng/Ronny

With JJ, Hummel, Bazz on the roster, but not on the active roster.

longstrangetrip wrote:I have to side with q on this one, as I also liked the Hummel signing. Although he didn't show it last year, he is a very good outside shooter, and this club sorely needs outside shooting. GR3 is a terrific athlete, but he only made 34 jump shots last year. Think about that...34 outside shots all season! The Wolves are set with extraordinary athletes who can jump and are already long in SF's, and GR3 seems to be redundant. And beyond that, there is the issue with his motor and toughness. Yes, his highlight video is fun to watch with his explosive dunks, but he was invisible much of the time in games that I watched last year. I'm not writing him off because he is a great athlete, but I think GR3's pedigree and leaping ability make him a little overrated. Take a look at the accompanying draft profile video, and decide for yourself if GR3 will ever be a contributor on an NBA team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03OV1Ko6CXw

Again, what this team needs is shooters, so I'm hoping that either Hummel or Heslip (or both) can lock up a place on this roster with a good showing in Mankato.

You seem to be consistent with this theory. If they don't show it, for some reason you still seem to think they're good shooters. Bennett didn't show it, and neither did Hummel. You're likely to reference college shooting, but again, how many guys have hit from college three and then didn't connect regularly from NBA range. This, along with all other pro sports, is a 'show me' league. Until they do so, I refuse to give them a "good shooter" label.

Wiggins, Young, LaVine, Bennett, Dieng... Those are the only above average athletes on the team. Muhammad has a case with how quick he's able to explode from the ground, but I don't think any of us would label him as a great athlete. Shabazz included, that's six athletes. Are you sure we couldn't use more? The more the merrier, in my opinion.

And beyond that, there is the issue with his motor and toughness. -- Seems to me that you pulled this out of your ass. The questions with Robinson are his aggressiveness on offense and his jumper, though he has good form. Motor and toughness? Have you ever watched the guy play? Way off base with that description.

I've already provided the stats in past debates with you and Q about this. While Robinson may have been 'invisible' to you, but stats show that he was a big reason as to why Michigan was winning games. He posted the 2nd highest WAR for the team his freshman year, and the third highest his sophomore year while he was playing out of position (SF playing PF). He plays smart. For some reason that's always something that's said for Hummel, but forgotten to mention about Robinson. People peg the "athlete" label on him when he's just a well-rounded hooper who has + athleticism.

I'm not saying Robinson will ever be an All-Star in this league, but I do see starter potential, and if he turns out to be a rotation player for us at some point, that's still a big win considering we only spent a 2nd rounder on him. Keep in mind he's only 20 years old. His ceiling is light years higher than Hummel's and Heslip's. No way should they be on the roster and Robinson shouldn't because they can make shots in practice.

Camden, I'm assuming you've forgotten about Corey Brewer

You make some good points, Cam...many great college shooters never realize the same level of success in the pros, and Hummel has not shot well in his limited NBA minutes. My hope for him comes from watching him pre-game and halftime at the few Wolves games I went to last year. He was without question the best looking 3-point shooter on the team...much better than Love or Martin. So hopefully he can duplicate that success in the NBA, that is, if he is given the chance. I think Flip's giving him a contract means he plans to give him a chance to be a 3-point specialist, but I would also expect that he will have him on a very short leash. Robbie has one more chance to show he can be an NBA player.

You and I have different opinions about GR3, although I will acknowledge I likely didn't watch nearly as much Michigan basketball last year as you did. What I did see was a guy who moved well without the ball and finished with some spectacular dunks, but who didn't look comfortable when he was away from the basket. I'm a big fan of the Draft Express draft profile videos. They do a great job of combing through the video for each profiled player and showing examples of strengths and weaknesses. You asked where I got my idea that Robinson lacked toughness and had a substandard motor. DraftExpress lists toughness as a specific weakness of his, and they also highlight some really poor defensive moments which make me question his motor. I had some of the same thoughts during Summer League, where there were many invisible moments for him.

I have a difficult time seeing him moving ahead of most of the other small forwards on the roster. He actually reminds me a lot of Chase Budinger in the way he moves without the ball and makes himself available in open spaces, but he's not the shooter that Chase is. You have to admit it's surprising that he only attempted 34 jump shots during his sophomore year...backdoor dunks just aren't as prevalent in the NBA as they are in college. I'd rather have a guy who has a chance of being a 3-point specialist (Hummel or Heslip) as our 14th or 15th guy than another athletic SF. I like some things about GR3, though, and my opinion would change if Flip unloaded 1 or 2 of our existing SF's before the start of the season.

mrhockey89 wrote:Camden, I'm assuming you've forgotten about Corey Brewer

I'm not sure why Brewer's relevant in the discussion about 20-year old Robinson. Corey's not a long term piece.

Camden wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:Camden, I'm assuming you've forgotten about Corey Brewer

I'm not sure why Brewer's relevant in the discussion about 20-year old Robinson. Corey's not a long term piece.

Actually bringing up Cory Brewer is perfect for this thread, because I see GR3 as a cheaper (and possibly better skilled) brewer. He will likely be a better man defender with less gambling, but offensively has significantly more upside.

This is a microcosm of the wolves history . We want to go the safe route with a guy like Hummel, when the gamble really has less downside. A good defender is always a good defender, but a poor defending 3pt shooter is worthless on his off shooting nights. What little Hummel can provide from the 3pt line, is completely erased on the defensive end, and he has no upside. His ceiling is the 15th player on a roster. He will never be a Fred Hoiberg, because he is simply too limited physically, and isn't anywhere near the shooter Fred was.

Robinson can likely provide similar production to what Brewer gives us at a much cheaper price, with more strength on the defensive end. If he doesn't workout, no loss, but why take a guy with no chance of being a solid role player on your team?

Long, you stated that he will have a hard time moving ahead of the other SF's, but do you see any chance of Hummel doing that? Robinson will likely never be the shooter Chase is, but he is healthy, a better defender, and much cheaper.

Camden wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:Camden, I'm assuming you've forgotten about Corey Brewer

I'm not sure why Brewer's relevant in the discussion about 20-year old Robinson. Corey's not a long term piece.

You said "Wiggins, Young, LaVine, Bennett, Dieng... Those are the only above average athletes on the team."

That implies that Brewer isn't an above average athlete. I'm refuting that with Brewer.

I don't necessarily dislike GRIII and I hope they find a way to get him on the roster. On the other hand, I really do like Hummel and think he can be a valuable spot-player at a couple of different positions. I'm confident that his 3-point shooting will come around, as he has been a good 3-point shooter at every level he's played (including 41% in the Spanish ACB League a couple years ago). His 36% mark last season was OK-ish. I think he only gets better.

I feel like there's Robbie Hummel type players floating around pretty much everywhere.

I would refute that GRIII can provide what Corey can at this point in time. He does not have the experience that Brew has nor the skill set to overcome that right away. Therein lies the problem. Flip wants to be as competitive as possible right now and Corey knows how to play winning basketball right now. By going out of his way to make room for Glenn this season, the rights clock that the Wolves have on him starts ticking. He can surely spend one year on the roster competing with his teammates at practice and playing many minutes in the DLeague but then the Wolves have to make a decision on him next summer to resign him and even compete with other teams for him. If he can be convinced to go overseas, like Hummel did, his rights clock does not start right away and he can play with pros for a year and the Wolves can bring him in like a fresh second rounder next summer.

As for Hummel overcoming the SF's for minutes, who cares? He will be dealing with the bigs for minutes at the 4 anyway. That is his only shot at minutes now. So yeah he is a similar spot to Glenn but the contract status make a big difference when it comes to keeping these guys cheap and bringing them in when the team really needs them. Hopefully Flip can get him on a Euro roster for a year for the benefit of each party involved.