Minnesota Sports Forum

The Spurs aren't letting Tre Jones go. He's a foundational piece and the Spurs are in no position to lose an RFA that they want to retain.

kekgeek wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 11:31 pm I would put a lot of money on Pat Bev on the wolves next year. Been talking a ton and I mean a ton about the wolves on his podcast lately

Interesting. I’d welcome him back. Ant loves him and he’d give us a spark we were lacking this past season without him or Vando. Every contending team needs rotation players like Pat Bev and Vando. Pat’s an unrestricted FA would has make so secret of his desire to return here. We could probably sign him with our BAE and use or MLE on a higher-priced free agent.

Looking at the list of free agent PGs, there’s a limited subset the Wolves could afford since they won’t be able to pay more than the MLE. If the Wolves want to bring in a veteran PG, they could probably afford to sign Westbrook, Beverley, Dennis Schroder, or Reggie Jackson using the BAE or MLE. However, I think the Wolves should go after a young PG with remaining upside who can be Conley’s understudy for a season or two. My first choice would be Tre Jones, but he’s a restricted FA so I’m not sure the MLE would be enough. Otherwise, I’d have my sights set on another RFA - Mac McClung - who’s coming off a 2-way deal. Another 2-way contract alternative might be Theo Maleon, who is only 22 years old.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 11:01 pm

kekgeek wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 11:31 pm I would put a lot of money on Pat Bev on the wolves next year. Been talking a ton and I mean a ton about the wolves on his podcast lately

Interesting. I’d welcome him back. Ant loves him and he’d give us a spark we were lacking this past season without him or Vando. Every contending team needs rotation players like Pat Bev and Vando. Pat’s an unrestricted FA would has make so secret of his desire to return here. We could probably sign him with our BAE and use or MLE on a higher-priced free agent.

Obviously I can be wrong but the last 2 weeks. Calls Ant the next MJ, live streams game 4 and 5 (only games until tonight he live streamed), named Mcdaniels and Gobert to his 1st team all defense (remember he called gobert overrated last year now he is praising him), says he loves finchie! And then yesterday talking Kat voice changing in different situations, he said “KAT is my fucking dog, I fuck with Kat, people said I was going to have to worry about Kat but I fuck with Kat we are like this!”

More names

D rose is unrestricted
I think a reverse Prince for Rubio trade would be interesting because the wolves open a spot up for Minott and they need a back up PG, and the Cavs are desperate for a wing to hit open 3s


Obviously neither fix the PG position long term

kekgeek wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 11:40 pm More names

D rose is unrestricted
I think a reverse Prince for Rubio trade would be interesting because the wolves open a spot up for Minott and they need a back up PG, and the Cavs are desperate for a wing to hit open 3s


Obviously neither fix the PG position long term

As much as I love Rubio, we probably need Prince's ability to hit open 3s more than Rubio's ability as a game manager and plug-in starting PG. Prince has been absolute money from the corners the last two seasons.

Guys will get dinged up and injured per usual. Hopefully Finch is more willing to utilize Minott when one of our frontline guys gets hurt rather than trotting more guards out there.

I am as much of a provincial rube as anyone, so I tend to overvalue players who come from Minnesota. But I wonder if we are overvaluing Tre Jones too much here. I admit the only times I watched him this season were the three games against the Timberwolves, but he was not very good in those games (3-10 and 3-12 in the first two games, although he did light things up in the 151-131 game where neither team played defense). And when I review per 36 stats (because although Jones starts, we are talking about who should be our backup PG here), I don't see a meaningful difference between the two players. I suspect that our view of JMac here is colored by how ineffective he was the last two weeks of the season, but his season-long stats are actually quite good. Both were exceptional in the stat I find most important for a PG...A:TO ratio...ranking in the top 10 in the league. We malign JMac's 3-point shooting, but he is much better here than Tre. He made 31% of his threes last season compared to 28.5% for Tre, and of course he was a far superior 3-point shooter in college than Tre. JMac's 2-point % is also better...55% to 51%. Both are undersized (their wingspans are actually the same), but can both be pesky defenders...JMac grades out better in defensive stats than Tre though. Defense is probably why JMac has a positive net rating for the season of +3, while Tre is a mirror image -3, and JMac's gaudy on/off stats were also better than Tre's.

JMac for some reason decided he was an effective scorer around the rim late in the season...he's not. And as a result, he was so bad in the playoffs that Finchie only played him 14 minutes. But we should not overlook how effective he was the rest of the season as we look for our backup PG for the next couple years. I agree with the consensus here that he is not an NBA starter at PG, so he should not be considered our PG of the future. But I think Mike Conley will be effective for another 3 or 4 years, and our focus should be on who can best manage the game when he is out. If the Wolves are successful the next couple years (and I think we will be), there will be veteran PG's who will be happy to come here to take over for Mike Conley when he hangs it up.

The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence...

You mention that 30.8% compared to 28.5% is "far superior" and "much better"... but don't mention anything about scoring.

McLaughlin averaged 8.5 pts per 36. Jones averaged 15.9.

McLauglin averaged a paltry 3.6 two point attempts per 36 minutes. Jones took 10.6 per 36 minutes. That's a significant difference and might be one reason why one guy might be a high-end backup PG or low-end starter and why the other guy might struggle to make many teams' roster as a 3rd PG.

Efficiency stats mean even less if you're unwilling or unable to even get shots off.

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 9:02 am You mention that 30.8% compared to 28.5% is "far superior" and "much better"... but don't mention anything about scoring.

McLaughlin averaged 8.5 pts per 36. Jones averaged 15.9.

McLauglin averaged a paltry 3.6 two point attempts per 36 minutes. Jones took 10.6 per 36 minutes. That's a significant difference and might be one reason why one guy might be a high-end backup PG or low-end starter and why the other guy might struggle to make many teams' roster as a 3rd PG.

Efficiency stats mean even less if you're unwilling or unable to even get shots off.

Fair point, Abe, if you think our biggest need from our backup PG is scoring, because Tre was clearly a more productive scorer last season. But San Antonio didn't have many scorers to turn to last year (Keldon Johnson and Devin Vassell were their top two scorers, and that's how you end up with 22 wins!), and Tre had to be more aggressive scoring the basketball. The Wolves are an entirely different team...they have two high-scoring stars, a clumsy center who still scores very efficiently, and an emerging offensive player who made 42% of his corer threes in Jaden. My preference is for a PG who moves the ball without turning it over and plays good defense, and only shoots as a last resort. I don't think we need a PG who puts up double digit shots per game at a 49% Efg %, especially if he comes with a price tag much higher than the guy we already have. And this is coming from a guy who actually likes Tre Jones.

FNG wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 9:28 am

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 9:02 am You mention that 30.8% compared to 28.5% is "far superior" and "much better"... but don't mention anything about scoring.

McLaughlin averaged 8.5 pts per 36. Jones averaged 15.9.

McLauglin averaged a paltry 3.6 two point attempts per 36 minutes. Jones took 10.6 per 36 minutes. That's a significant difference and might be one reason why one guy might be a high-end backup PG or low-end starter and why the other guy might struggle to make many teams' roster as a 3rd PG.

Efficiency stats mean even less if you're unwilling or unable to even get shots off.

Fair point, Abe, if you think our biggest need from our backup PG is scoring, because Tre was clearly a more productive scorer last season. But San Antonio didn't have many scorers to turn to last year (Keldon Johnson and Devin Vassell were their top two scorers, and that's how you end up with 22 wins!), and Tre had to be more aggressive scoring the basketball. The Wolves are an entirely different team...they have two high-scoring stars, a clumsy center who still scores very efficiently, and an emerging offensive player who made 42% of his corer threes in Jaden. My preference is for a PG who moves the ball without turning it over and plays good defense, and only shoots as a last resort. I don't think we need a PG who puts up double digit shots per game at a 49% Efg %, especially if he comes with a price tag much higher than the guy we already have. And this is coming from a guy who actually likes Tre Jones.

It's fine if you don't think Tre Jones is good enough. As noted in my first post, there are red flags (especially that three point shooting) that have me uncertain, too.

But I can't get into any serious discussion that Jones = McLaughlin.

It's not about scoring being the "biggest need." Obviously. But a PG has to be a threat to score, especially if he's playing 20 mpg.

It's hard to describe just how low McLaughlin's 8.5 points per 36 is. It's Thanasis Antekuonmpo bad. It's Matisse Thybulle bad. It's worse than Ben Simmons or surgically repaired knee Ricky Rubio. It's worse than perennially traded Ish Smith. It's Matthew Delladova bad... yes... he's still in the league.

In fact, the only rotation player for any of the 16 playoff teams this season with worse per 36 scoring numbers than McLaughlin is PJ Tucker for Philadelphia. Obviously, that guy is an anomaly, and on the court for other very specific reasons. He barely touches the ball.

Many teams don't have a single player on the roster (even the 15th guy) with points per 36 numbers as low as McLaughlin. McLaughlin's eventual replacement, Austin Rivers, was only slightly better at 9.0.