Finals Thread

[Leado01]

Culture can't come from a single player so I don't blame KAT for our lack of Culture and Identity.

Frankly, four of the guys we've brought in in the last year are highly regarded practice and execution guys so I do feel like we're heading in the right direction relating to Culture. We just need some consistency to establish that Culture with or without KAT.

[Lipoli390]

Culture can't come from a single player so I don't blame KAT for our lack of Culture and Identity.

Frankly, four of the guys we've brought in in the last year are highly regarded practice and execution guys so I do feel like we're heading in the right direction relating to Culture. We just need some consistency to establish that Culture with or without KAT.

Yes. This franchise is long overdue for some consistency. We’ve gone from Flip to Thibs to Rosas to TC in the front office. Meanwhile, we’ve gone from Flip to Mitchell to Thibs to Ryan to Finch as head coach. Butler was here one season then gone the next. It was supposed to be Wiggins, LaVine and KAT. Then LaVine was gone followed but Wiggins. We were a #8 offensive team winning 46 games with Vando and Beverley one season and the next season we were a 43-win team learning to play with Rudy Gobert and ending up one as one of the worst offensive teams in the league.

You won’t have culture without consistency.

[Coolbreeze44]

Anfernee Simons would match KAT's consistency from behind the arc, and Jaden shot better than both of them last year. We can't replace all of KAT's offense, but we should still score at a better than average rate. I like what a post KAT team could look like.

[Lipoli390]

Anfernee Simons would match KAT's consistency from behind the arc, and Jaden shot better than both of them last year. We can't replace all of KAT's offense, but we should still score at a better than average rate. I like what a post KAT team could look like.

Cool - Would Anfernee Simons be in the starting lineup in your post-KAT scenario? What would the starting lineup be?

[Coolbreeze44]

Anfernee Simons would match KAT's consistency from behind the arc, and Jaden shot better than both of them last year. We can't replace all of KAT's offense, but we should still score at a better than average rate. I like what a post KAT team could look like.

Cool - Would Anfernee Simons be in the starting lineup in your post-KAT scenario? What would the starting lineup be?

I don't want to play Jaden at the 4, so I'd probably bring Simons off the bench with Henderson and have NAZ start at the 4.

[TheFuture]

I know some of you are chomping at the bit to get rid of KAT, but it should come as no surprise that the Heat and Nuggets were the two most accurate 3-point shooting teams in the Playoffs this year. While they aren't high volume 3-pt teams, they made the open ones at a high rate.

If we move on from KAT, that is one less really accurate 3-point shooter on our roster. It is ***MANDATORY*** that the team has shooting around Ant if we ever want this team to make a deep playoff run.

You don't pay a 28 year old big 40+ mil to figure out if he is a pf or C (did nobody else notice he is not agile enough to defend the new era quicker 4s, nor quick enough mentally to process where to be?), a 3pt spreader, capable of being the face of the franchise, seeing if he can remain healthy moving forward. A team can spend that money elsewhere. If you're not expecting defense, there are people to knock down 3s. KAT is not it moving forward.

[Lipoli390]

I know some of you are chomping at the bit to get rid of KAT, but it should come as no surprise that the Heat and Nuggets were the two most accurate 3-point shooting teams in the Playoffs this year. While they aren't high volume 3-pt teams, they made the open ones at a high rate.

If we move on from KAT, that is one less really accurate 3-point shooter on our roster. It is ***MANDATORY*** that the team has shooting around Ant if we ever want this team to make a deep playoff run.

You don't pay a 28 year old big 40+ mil to figure out if he is a pf or C (did nobody else notice he is not agile enough to defend the new era quicker 4s, nor quick enough mentally to process where to be?), a 3pt spreader, capable of being the face of the franchise, seeing if he can remain healthy moving forward. A team can spend that money elsewhere. If you're not expecting defense, there are people to knock down 3s. KAT is not it moving forward.

KAT knows he’s a center as do most NBA observers. The only people who apparently didn’t get the memo are members of the Wolves front office who made the Rudy deal last summer. KAT’s definitely not quick or agile enough to guard modern PFs in space, which is mainly why he’s a center. It’s also why it was ridiculous to trade for Gobert - never mind how much we gave up to get him. KAT’s unique offensively as a center in that he’s an elite scorer in multiple ways - three-point shooting, driving the lane and posting up. He’s a good rebounder. He’s not a good defender, but I’ll remind you that he had the same defensive rating last season that Rudy had this past season. So he seems to have evolved his defense to the point where it’s not terrible. He actually defended Jokic fairly well in this year’s playoffs - although no one really defends Jokic well.

I get the arguments for trading KAT. But some assertions are simply over the top and borderline hysterical.

[Wolvesfan21]

KAT was already being guarded by 4's though with Vando not spacing the floor either on offense. The insane problem we still have 8 years in is that teams can easily attack KAT when he plays center and put him into foul trouble, so he either gets put on the bench or can't play defense well because of the fouls (lay up line).

You are just handcuffed with KAT at the 5. It doesn't work. Never has, which is why I am done with him. I thought he would improve over the last 7-8 years but he hardly has. He is largely the same player he was coming in. Little better on offense sure, but that doesn't help when you can't defend or stay on the floor because of foul trouble.

[Lipoli390]

KAT was already being guarded by 4's though with Vando not spacing the floor either on offense. The insane problem we still have 8 years in is that teams can easily attack KAT when he plays center and put him into foul trouble, so he either gets put on the bench or can't play defense well because of the fouls (lay up line).

You are just handcuffed with KAT at the 5. It doesn't work. Never has, which is why I am done with him. I thought he would improve over the last 7-8 years but he hardly has. He is largely the same player he was coming in. Little better on offense sure, but that doesn't help when you can't defend or stay on the floor because of foul trouble.

KAT does well when guarded by 4s. He also performs well offensively against nearly every center he plays. Look at his offensive production over time against Gobert for example. Who you can defend ultimately determines position. KAT can guard the vast majority of 5s in the League. And he can provide elite offensive production against the vast majority of 5s. That’s why he’s been an allstar. It’s also why this team has made the playoffs in the only two seasons when he’s been paired with another allstar caliber player - Jimmy Butler the first time and Edwards the second time two seasons ago. Actually, Edwards wasn’t even playing at an allstar level that season. The narrative on KAT has taken on a bizarre fictional quality lately.

It doesn’t take distortions or gross exaggerations to make the case for trading KAT. The case for trading him is that (1) we’re not sure he can be the caliber #2 we need to justify his supermax contract; (2) keeping both KAT and Rudy will unduly handcuff this franchise under the new CBA; (3) we won’t get a big enough return to justify trading Rudy; and (4) now is the time, as Cool said, to cash out on KAT while he’s in his prime and before his salary escalates next summer. My conclusion is that trading KAT for a lottery pick other than Wemby would be far too risky and, therefore, a bad idea. I lean towards believing KAT can be a very effective #2 to Ant, especially with Jaden’s elite defense and Ant’s developing elite defense. I also think there’s a decent Gobert trade out there that will give us the salary relief we need in 2024 and a draft prospect in lower half of the first round who could turn out as good or better than Scoot.

[FNG]

I know some of you are chomping at the bit to get rid of KAT, but it should come as no surprise that the Heat and Nuggets were the two most accurate 3-point shooting teams in the Playoffs this year. While they aren't high volume 3-pt teams, they made the open ones at a high rate.

If we move on from KAT, that is one less really accurate 3-point shooter on our roster. It is ***MANDATORY*** that the team has shooting around Ant if we ever want this team to make a deep playoff run.

Yes, mandatory. And that is exactly why I am against any deal built around getting Henderson for KAT. We likely end up with a much worse 3-point shooter at the 4, and add a PG of the future who is a poor 3-point shooter (and an erratic defender and distributor). Not a prescription for success.

I'm looking forward to this series...two very likable teams. And as Carlos suggested in another thread, Denver's success in the psot-season is some support for keeping our core together as long as we can. Rudy's success against the marvelous Jokic was obvious to the eye, but the stats support the eye test. Jokic shot 63.2% from the field this past season, but the Wolves held him to less than 50% during their 5-game playoff...that's significant. And I suspect that Adebayo just isn't big enough to have much success against Jokic. Effectively defending Jokic is the key to challenging Denver in the West, and I think that's why TC acquired Rudy...and why he's likely not to move him. I'll be watching the Bam/Nikola matchup closely, and comparing it to what I observed in our series.