Minnesota Sports Forum

Monster wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:19 am

FNG wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:56 am

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:50 am Just got a text from a friend in MN who graduated years ago from the University of Illinois. She said she’s heard from a number of fellow very active alumni who are still living in Illinois and know Shannon. They love Shannon - both his game and as a person. They told her the Wolves are really fortunate to get him.

TC did a lot of due diligence on this one, Lip, talking with countless people from Illinois and Texas Tech. All reports are that Shannon doesn't have good character...he has great character. And we know he can play. I'm more and more convinced TC made the right pick at 27, although I was certainly on the fence at the time.

I thought it was telling all the folks at his draft party. I don't think Angel Reese is showing up if there is really any doubt about him being a good guy.

Angel Reese has more baggage than he does

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:20 am

FNG wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 9:41 am Let's get the elephant out of the room right away. Any discussion of Shannon has to include the sexual assault allegation of which he was found not guilty. I have to admit that as a charter member of the "Believe the Woman" club, I have had my doubts about this guy since the moment the charges became public...not from a basketball standpoint at all, but only from a character standpoint. But having watched a lot of non-basketball interviews with him this morning, my character concerns are gone. I see Shannon as a very nice, quite shy young man. I especially enjoyed the "Day in the Life" video that is out there. He comes across as a guy who really respects team employees...trainers, coaches, etc. That tells me that he is going to be very coachable. He won't have Rob's charisma...he admits in some videos that he is not a leader. But I think he will be a very good teammate.

But unlike Dillingham, Shannon is not going to need a lot of coaching. At 24 years old with 5 years of college play behind him, he is as NBA ready as anyone in the draft. And also unlike Rob, he is a clear 2-way player. His defense during his Texas Tech stint was deemed elite, and he also appeared to be a solid defender with Illinois. We have to keep things in perspective here...he was a 23 year old playing against a lot of teenagers his senior year. Those of us that remember playing pickup ball against much less developed opponents know the advantage that creates. But still, he is big and fast, and those attributes make him NBA ready.

I like this pick. TC has secured a wing who should be ready to contribute right away.

Glad you’ve come around on his character, FNG. Regarding your “believe the woman” philosophy I would just suggest you can believe a woman’s claim she was assaulted but you then need to be very careful about believing that she’s accurately identified the person who committed the assault. Eye witness identifications are notoriously inaccurate. It’s one of the first thing a law student learns in trial advocacy class. You’re in a crowded bar late at night and pretty wasted. You see a guy a couple times that night. Then at some point you’re assaulted in a brief instance in the crowd as happened in this case. The face you associate with that assault could easily be a face you saw nearby or a couple times in the bar that night rather than the perpetrator.

I also encourage you to check out the cases where men convicted of sexual assault were later completely exonerated by DNA evidence. In most cases, it was mistaken identity. But in a not insignificant number of cases it was more disturbing - retribution, extortion, or just weirdness. One of the weirdest cases was an Illinois man who was convicted of sexually assaulting a neighbor woman across the street in her home. The jury believed her over him as you might with your “believe the woman” philosophy. But many years later, the DNA evidence showed it could not have been him. This didn’t seem to be a case of mistaken identity and there wasn’t any money in it for her. Did she just hate him for some reason? Was it some sort of sick fun on her part? Was she looking for someone to blame to protect the actual perpetrator? Who knows. Then think about the text exchanges between the victim in this instance and her friends after Terrence was charged - exchanging emojis with dollar signs on their tongues. Human nature doesn’t lend itself easily to stereotypes or rules of thumb. That’s why we have courts and rules of evidence for things like this.

There will always be cases of mistaken identity. And there will be false claims of sexual assault. I just caution that we hear/read more about the false ones because they often involve athletes and other semi-famous people where there might be more of a motive to make a false claim. Hence, the dollar sign emojis or whatever this lying lady sent to friends.

The bottom line remains that most sexual assaults are NOT reported because most women don't want to go through the process of reporting and reliving it... and the subsequent judgement about it. False cases - the ones that get a lot of attention - don't help matters. Obviously, there are a lot of studies out there, but between 16%-40% of rapes are unreported, depending on the study. Further, about 80% of rapes involve a person known to the victim. Other studies have revealed anywhere between 2% and 8% of sexual assault claims are false.

So, there will be sinister women who falsely accuse men. But if we go by statistics... the "believe the woman" philosophy seems to have better accuracy than a Steph Curry free throw. It's up to each of us whether that's enough... especially when the serious ramifications for the accused are considered.

In the case of Shannon, fortunately, it appears that the truth came out in the end.

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 1:34 pm

Monster wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:19 am

FNG wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:56 am

TC did a lot of due diligence on this one, Lip, talking with countless people from Illinois and Texas Tech. All reports are that Shannon doesn't have good character...he has great character. And we know he can play. I'm more and more convinced TC made the right pick at 27, although I was certainly on the fence at the time.

I thought it was telling all the folks at his draft party. I don't think Angel Reese is showing up if there is really any doubt about him being a good guy.

Angel Reese has more baggage than he does

She doesn't have baggage. We just don't accept women who are arrogant like guys on the court.

WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:17 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 1:34 pm

Monster wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:19 am

I thought it was telling all the folks at his draft party. I don't think Angel Reese is showing up if there is really any doubt about him being a good guy.

Angel Reese has more baggage than he does

She doesn't have baggage. We just don't accept women who are arrogant like guys on the court.

While I agree to part of that... and talking trash isn't a lot of baggage anyway...

I quibble with the "arrogant like guys on the court" part. I've never seen anyone (man or woman) walk around the court to taunt another player as demonstrably in that situation as Reese did to Clark.

I would cringe if I saw that in an AAU summer game. And it happened in a national championship game.

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:25 pm

WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:17 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 1:34 pm

Angel Reese has more baggage than he does

She doesn't have baggage. We just don't accept women who are arrogant like guys on the court.

While I agree to part of that... and talking trash isn't a lot of baggage anyway...

I quibble with the "arrogant like guys on the court" part. I've never seen anyone (man or woman) walk around the court to taunt another player as demonstrably in that situation as Reese did to Clark.

I would cringe if I saw that in an AAU summer game. And it happened in a national championship game.

What about the getting suspended from her college team part. What about the cheering for the cheap shot on Clark part? What about the fines she's already been levied in the league part?

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:28 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:25 pm

WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:17 pm

She doesn't have baggage. We just don't accept women who are arrogant like guys on the court.

While I agree to part of that... and talking trash isn't a lot of baggage anyway...

I quibble with the "arrogant like guys on the court" part. I've never seen anyone (man or woman) walk around the court to taunt another player as demonstrably in that situation as Reese did to Clark.

I would cringe if I saw that in an AAU summer game. And it happened in a national championship game.

What about the getting suspended from her college team part. What about the cheering for the cheap shot on Clark part? What about the fines she's already been levied in the league part?

Feel free to add whatever you want. I only know of her being fined for missing a media session or something? That's not all that unusual. No idea why she was suspended in college, but again, it's not unprecedented.

I referenced the chasing Clark around example because I'd never seen that before... despite what we were told at the time by many... to challenge the "arrogant like men" take.

WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:17 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 1:34 pm

Monster wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:19 am

I thought it was telling all the folks at his draft party. I don't think Angel Reese is showing up if there is really any doubt about him being a good guy.

Angel Reese has more baggage than he does

She doesn't have baggage. We just don't accept women who are arrogant like guys on the court.

You mean players like Draymond Green and Dillon Brooks are beloved around the league? I don't think so. I've seen a ton of hate sent their way. And like those guys, it seems to me that Angel Reese leans into her villain brand and has been cashing in some pretty good sponsorship deals. What you say may be fashionable on the coasts, but it isn't backed up by facts.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 9:23 pm

WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:17 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 1:34 pm

Angel Reese has more baggage than he does

She doesn't have baggage. We just don't accept women who are arrogant like guys on the court.

You mean players like Draymond Green and Dillon Brooks are beloved around the league? I don't think so. I've seen a ton of hate sent their way. And like those guys, it seems to me that Angel Reese leans into her villain brand and has been cashing in some pretty good sponsorship deals. What you say may be fashionable on the coasts, but it isn't backed up by facts.

Draymond Green has more buddies and connections around the league than we wanna admit. Even a year of Pat Bev showed us that they’re tolerable as long as they’re on your team.

I saw a game a week ago where a ref tried to break up Reese and Smith chatting to each other not even in a confrontational manner. I don’t mind the intensity (big fan of Reese) as long as it’s backed up. Brooks gets disliked because he’s annoying without it favoring him.

WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:04 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 9:23 pm

WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:17 pm

She doesn't have baggage. We just don't accept women who are arrogant like guys on the court.

You mean players like Draymond Green and Dillon Brooks are beloved around the league? I don't think so. I've seen a ton of hate sent their way. And like those guys, it seems to me that Angel Reese leans into her villain brand and has been cashing in some pretty good sponsorship deals. What you say may be fashionable on the coasts, but it isn't backed up by facts.

Draymond Green has more buddies and connections around the league than we wanna admit. Even a year of Pat Bev showed us that they’re tolerable as long as they’re on your team.

I saw a game a week ago where a ref tried to break up Reese and Smith chatting to each other not even in a confrontational manner. I don’t mind the intensity (big fan of Reese) as long as it’s backed up. Brooks gets disliked because he’s annoying without it favoring him.

Well, yeah, when these guys are on your team you like them. But all the dudes mentioned above, including PatBev, are generally divisive players that get a lot of flack from fans outside of their team just like Angel. She is no different in that regard and she's embraced it. So I don't get the "she isn't accepted like a man would be" take.

Tonight I watched the Illinois vs UConn game in the tourney. I had not watched that one. Here are my take aways from what I saw from TSJ in the game.

His defense was pretty good especially guarding his man straight up. He absolutely suffocated guys when they had the ball. He did get beat a couple times when his guy cut behind him although that only led to points once. It looked like the scheme did really ask him to play off his guy but I did come away wondering what his help defense was like. There was some plays where he came out of nowhere to really get up and contest guys and had at least one block. Another time he basically flew over a guy influencing a miss on what looked like a wide open layup. He seemed to be excellent in staying in front of guys and also recovering if the guy got a step on him. He did well navigating screens.

Offensively he didn't do much in the first half because apparently the game plan was have one guy back down the entire UConn team for 40 minutes. It was bizarre. TSJ had a couple of plays where that open court transition game of his showed up where he was just a blur and got to the rim. He made some good passes in the first half and then in the 2nd half he got to handle the ball and was making several nice plays and his teammates were like should we shoot an open 3? Nah let's drive in and test more shot blockers. The game was pretty much over but there was still at least 10 minutes and Shannon started to show why he is considered an excellent player he was all over the place in a good way.

I'm looking forward to seeing another game of his to see if he plays more help D and whether or not he is a more disruptive defender other than when on the ball. Castle did nothing when matched up with him. He doesn't seem to be the best rebounder and a couple plays made me question how good his hands are.

This was a disastrous game for Illinois but I saw some good signs from TSJ and it makes me want to see more. I was impressed with his on ball defense and his passing. I also liked what I saw from him athletically.