A-Rod and Lore officially own the Timberwolves!!!

[Q-is-here]

Here’s an opinion people won’t agree with here. I am terrified for the franchise with ARod and Lore as owners, and I think Glen Taylor would be a better and safer owner going forward.

1. Taylor won’t move the team.
2. Taylor is willing to pay when the team is a winner.
3. Taylor doesn’t interfere with basketball decisions.

The last trait magnified his problem of choosing bad GMs, but he took himself out of the process of GM selection now, so now he’s basically a MIN-loyal ATM.

We don’t know any of these things for ARod and Lore, and while they say things to the general public, there is a lot of very disturbing events around them. I hope ARod and Lore fans are right about them, as new owners of the team we all love.

Shrink, I think I'm pretty much in the middle on this one. I'm still a little pissed at Glen about the Joe Smith debacle and the second round picks he sold for cash, but I'll always be grateful to him for buying the team and keeping it here. And I appreciate that he has mostly stayed out of basketball operations and been willing to pay the luxury tax. On the other hand, ALore has some star power, and that could be a factor in free agents wanting to come here. But then there's the risk that Alore won't be as willing as Glen was to pay lux tax. So, a lot of uncertainty here, and we have to hope for the best. Let's hope last night's debacle isn't an indication of how the players feel about this outcome!

I think one can be grateful for what Glen did 30+ years ago to keep the team in Minnesota while at the same time acknowledging that he presided over one of the losing-est franchises in pro sports, much of which was directly caused by his blundering and bad hires.

I'm going to embrace the uncertainty, which to me is better than the certainty of mediocrity under Glen Taylor.

As for the current players, I don't think they care all that much. Any one of them could be traded at the drop of a hat and they have their own entities and brands to look after. It's long-time fans like us and especially long time employees working in operations, back office functions, etc. that are most affected by this change of ownership.

[WildWolf2813]

Here’s an opinion people won’t agree with here. I am terrified for the franchise with ARod and Lore as owners, and I think Glen Taylor would be a better and safer owner going forward.

1. Taylor won’t move the team.
2. Taylor is willing to pay when the team is a winner.
3. Taylor doesn’t interfere with basketball decisions.

The last trait magnified his problem of choosing bad GMs, but he took himself out of the process of GM selection now, so now he’s basically a MIN-loyal ATM.

We don’t know any of these things for ARod and Lore, and while they say things to the general public, there is a lot of very disturbing events around them. I hope ARod and Lore fans are right about them, as new owners of the team we all love.

1. It's a risk worth taking. For the longest time, the options seemed to be either a) root for a crappy team or b) not have a team at all to which fans just decided to go with c) not give a damn what happens. Also, the entire reason why we're in this situation is because no local buyer was interested in buying the Wolves, even at a bargain compared to other teams. The family didn't wanna keep it and Glen's 83, so whether you wanna admit it or not, this conundrum was coming sooner than later. He's found guys who at the surface wanna build a new arena for the team in the suburbs. Building an arena where they collect everything beats being a tenant elsewhere unless the city doesn't wanna contribute some to a new arena. Truth be told, the odds of the team leaving skyrocket if Glen holds onto it, dies, and then the family sells it to the highest bidder.

2. No he isn't, but more importantly than that he sucks at hiring the right people. Even in this whole ordeal, if you think Lore and A-Rod aren't suited to be owners, than Glen's fault. Selling it for $1.5 is Glen's fault. Getting on this stupid payment plan is Glen's fault. Most importantly yanking the team off the market AGAIN because his feelings were hurt is Glen's fault.

3. He doesn't hire the right people. I'll give him credit to an extent on guys like Casson, Gupta when he was here and even Rosas, but he carries himself like the ugly girl at the party and in this league people take advantage of that. Lore, A-Rod and Connelly came in and swung for the fences. Whether it works, we'll see and we can be skeptical as to whether it works, but they're going for it and it beats whatever Glen had in mind.

[Lipoli390]

Here’s an opinion people won’t agree with here. I am terrified for the franchise with ARod and Lore as owners, and I think Glen Taylor would be a better and safer owner going forward.

1. Taylor won’t move the team.
2. Taylor is willing to pay when the team is a winner.
3. Taylor doesn’t interfere with basketball decisions.

The last trait magnified his problem of choosing bad GMs, but he took himself out of the process of GM selection now, so now he’s basically a MIN-loyal ATM.

We don’t know any of these things for ARod and Lore, and while they say things to the general public, there is a lot of very disturbing events around them. I hope ARod and Lore fans are right about them, as new owners of the team we all love.

Shrink, I think I'm pretty much in the middle on this one. I'm still a little pissed at Glen about the Joe Smith debacle and the second round picks he sold for cash, but I'll always be grateful to him for buying the team and keeping it here. And I appreciate that he has mostly stayed out of basketball operations and been willing to pay the luxury tax. On the other hand, ALore has some star power, and that could be a factor in free agents wanting to come here. But then there's the risk that Alore won't be as willing as Glen was to pay lux tax. So, a lot of uncertainty here, and we have to hope for the best. Let's hope last night's debacle isn't an indication of how the players feel about this outcome!

I think one can be grateful for what Glen did 30+ years ago to keep the team in Minnesota while at the same time acknowledging that he presided over one of the losing-est franchises in pro sports, much of which was directly caused by his blundering and bad hires.

I'm going to embrace the uncertainty, which to me is better than the certainty of mediocrity under Glen Taylor.

As for the current players, I don't think they care all that much. Any one of them could be traded at the drop of a hat and they have their own entities and brands to look after. It's long-time fans like us and especially long time employees working in operations, back office functions, etc. that are most affected by this change of ownership.

You captured my thinking, Q. I remember how down I was when the Wolves appeared headed to Memphis. David Stern stepped in and then Glen came to the rescue and bought to team to keep in in Minnesota. As a Wolves fan I’ll always be grateful to Glen for that.

His tenure started off well hiring Kevin McHale and Flip Saunders - two local basketball heroes, one of them an NBA legend. It was a huge improvement over the lugs Harv and Marv hired to run the team’s basketball operations, including son-in-law lawyer Stein. Kevin and Flip brought a great vibe to the franchise. They went out of a limb and drafted KG, which turned out to be move as brilliant as it was bold. The next year they drafted Marbury, which was absolutely the right move at the time. Just bad luck that Marbury mentally imploded with jealousy after the new CBA prevented him from making as much money as KG. After that, it was more than just bad luck as McHale and Flip repeatedly made bad draft and player personnel decisions.

As McHale and Flip started to fail, Glen’s weaknesses started to show. We saw that he was parochial and ultimately clueless when it came to hiring basketball executives. We saw that he was reckless when he signed off on the illegal Joe Smith deal. It was one bad hiring decision after another, including giving Thibs the POB job along with head coaching position. Thibs had none of the skills you need in that executive position and no track record, which is why no other team ever did or ever would hire him to be their PBO; but Glen did.

He went back to the familiar parochial well when he hired Flip to be our PBO. I loved Flip, but that probably wasn’t the best move at the time. I’ll give Glen credit for hiring Rosas but there were too many bad basketball decisions on Glen’s watch for me to want him to remain as the team’s owner. And this last stunt he pulled - backing out of a deal he insisted on without a credible argument - was the last straw for me.

Now we’ll see where Lore and A-Rod take us. I have some trepidation, but I also find it exciting. I don’t know if TC was the right hire but I can see how he might be and I admire Lore and A-Rod for going out and getting him the way they did. I didn’t like the Gobert deal, but I respect their decision to give management the green light for a bold move like that. I still hate the deal, but it wasn’t a Doncic stupid sort of deal. So I’m happy to turn the page and excited about the Wolves future. Time will tell whether my excitement is justified. I can certainly seem my spirit betting crushed again as it was when the Wolves traded Steph, the Joe Smith deal was exposed, Billups left and ultimately KG was traded to Boston where he won a championship.

[FNG]

Shrink, I think I'm pretty much in the middle on this one. I'm still a little pissed at Glen about the Joe Smith debacle and the second round picks he sold for cash, but I'll always be grateful to him for buying the team and keeping it here. And I appreciate that he has mostly stayed out of basketball operations and been willing to pay the luxury tax. On the other hand, ALore has some star power, and that could be a factor in free agents wanting to come here. But then there's the risk that Alore won't be as willing as Glen was to pay lux tax. So, a lot of uncertainty here, and we have to hope for the best. Let's hope last night's debacle isn't an indication of how the players feel about this outcome!

I think one can be grateful for what Glen did 30+ years ago to keep the team in Minnesota while at the same time acknowledging that he presided over one of the losing-est franchises in pro sports, much of which was directly caused by his blundering and bad hires.

I'm going to embrace the uncertainty, which to me is better than the certainty of mediocrity under Glen Taylor.

As for the current players, I don't think they care all that much. Any one of them could be traded at the drop of a hat and they have their own entities and brands to look after. It's long-time fans like us and especially long time employees working in operations, back office functions, etc. that are most affected by this change of ownership.

You captured my thinking, Q. I remember how down I was when the Wolves appeared headed to Memphis. David Stern stepped in and then Glen came to the rescue and bought to team to keep in in Minnesota. As a Wolves fan I’ll always be grateful to Glen for that.

His tenure started off well hiring Kevin McHale and Flip Saunders - two local basketball heroes, one of them an NBA legend. It was a huge improvement over the lugs Harv and Marv hired to run the team’s basketball operations, including son-in-law lawyer Stein. Kevin and Flip brought a great vibe to the franchise. They went out of a limb and drafted KG, which turned out to be move as brilliant as it was bold. The next year they drafted Marbury, which was absolutely the right move at the time. Just bad luck that Marbury mentally imploded with jealousy after the new CBA prevented him from making as much money as KG. After that, it was more than just bad luck as McHale and Flip repeatedly made bad draft and player personnel decisions.

As McHale and Flip started to fail, Glen’s weaknesses started to show. We saw that he was parochial and ultimately clueless when it came to hiring basketball executives. We saw that he was reckless when he signed off on the illegal Joe Smith deal. It was one bad hiring decision after another, including giving Thibs the POB job along with head coaching position. Thibs had none of the skills you need in that executive position and no track record, which is why no other team ever did or ever would hire him to be their PBO; but Glen did.

He went back to the familiar parochial well when he hired Flip to be our PBO. I loved Flip, but that probably wasn’t the best move at the time. I’ll give Glen credit for hiring Rosas but there were too many bad basketball decisions on Glen’s watch for me to want him to remain as the team’s owner. And this last stunt he pulled - backing out of a deal he insisted on without a credible argument - was the last straw for me.

Now we’ll see where Lore and A-Rod take us. I have some trepidation, but I also find it exciting. I don’t know if TC was the right hire but I can see how he might be and I admire Lore and A-Rod for going out and getting him the way they did. I didn’t like the Gobert deal, but I respect their decision to give management the green light for a bold move like that. I still hate the deal, but it wasn’t a Doncic stupid sort of deal. So I’m happy to turn the page and excited about the Wolves future. Time will tell whether my excitement is justified. I can certainly seem my spirit betting crushed again as it was when the Wolves traded Steph, the Joe Smith deal was exposed, Billups left and ultimately KG was traded to Boston where he won a championship.

Very fair analysis of the Taylor regime by you guys. I'm also guardedly optimistic about the future, and hoping the new owners are willing to spend. Dane's podcast yesterday with Chris Hine was informative. Dane talked about how trashy the entryway used to be for the visiting team...this was the first look by NBA opponents at our arena, and probably didn't make them feel very positive about Minnesota as a possible destination. One of the first moves by ALore as minority owners was to improve the look of the visiting team entryway...nothing extravagant, but at least up to average NBA standards. Things like that combined with their star power may be instrumental in convincing free agents to come here. We can only hope.

[shrink]

Very fair analysis of the Taylor regime by you guys. I'm also guardedly optimistic about the future, and hoping the new owners are willing to spend. Dane's podcast yesterday with Chris Hine was informative. Dane talked about how trashy the entryway used to be for the visiting team...this was the first look by NBA opponents at our arena, and probably didn't make them feel very positive about Minnesota as a possible destination. One of the first moves by ALore as minority owners was to improve the look of the visiting team entryway...nothing extravagant, but at least up to average NBA standards. Things like that combined with their star power may be instrumental in convincing free agents to come here. We can only hope.

Isn’t it fun to make improvements as minority owners when the bulk of the payment comes from the majority owner? “You mean, if we pay 20%, we can get something worth 5 times that amount? And we’ll own it all later? Here’s our giant list of improvements, and give us all the credit!”

And remember, they also had ATM Taylor build them a lavish luxury owner suite last year before the fight. That was on Glen’s dime as well, and he didn’t think it was necessary. It’s hard to argue ARod and Lore wanted that for the team, that was all for them. It seems to me, rather than credit them for spending other people’s money, more honorable owners would have waited a year on their luxury suite, and paid for the bulk of these improvements with their own money.

I guess we’ll see if they continue to spend on the team when it’s their own money. We are banking on them lying to the NBA Board of Governors and Carlisle, so fingers crossed!

[FNG]

Very fair analysis of the Taylor regime by you guys. I'm also guardedly optimistic about the future, and hoping the new owners are willing to spend. Dane's podcast yesterday with Chris Hine was informative. Dane talked about how trashy the entryway used to be for the visiting team...this was the first look by NBA opponents at our arena, and probably didn't make them feel very positive about Minnesota as a possible destination. One of the first moves by ALore as minority owners was to improve the look of the visiting team entryway...nothing extravagant, but at least up to average NBA standards. Things like that combined with their star power may be instrumental in convincing free agents to come here. We can only hope.

Isn’t it fun to make improvements as minority owners when the bulk of the payment comes from the majority owner? “You mean, if we pay 20%, we can get something worth 5 times that amount? And we’ll own it all later? Here’s our giant list of improvements, and give us all the credit!”

And remember, they also had ATM Taylor build them a lavish luxury owner suite last year before the fight. That was on Glen’s dime as well, and he didn’t think it was necessary. It’s hard to argue ARod and Lore wanted that for the team, that was all for them. It seems to me, rather than credit them for spending other people’s money, more honorable owners would have waited a year on their luxury suite, and paid for the bulk of these improvements with their own money.

I guess we’ll see if they continue to spend on the team when it’s their own money. We are banking on them lying to the NBA Board of Governors and Carlisle, so fingers crossed!

Ha, good points shrink!

[Q-is-here]

Very fair analysis of the Taylor regime by you guys. I'm also guardedly optimistic about the future, and hoping the new owners are willing to spend. Dane's podcast yesterday with Chris Hine was informative. Dane talked about how trashy the entryway used to be for the visiting team...this was the first look by NBA opponents at our arena, and probably didn't make them feel very positive about Minnesota as a possible destination. One of the first moves by ALore as minority owners was to improve the look of the visiting team entryway...nothing extravagant, but at least up to average NBA standards. Things like that combined with their star power may be instrumental in convincing free agents to come here. We can only hope.

Isn’t it fun to make improvements as minority owners when the bulk of the payment comes from the majority owner? “You mean, if we pay 20%, we can get something worth 5 times that amount? And we’ll own it all later? Here’s our giant list of improvements, and give us all the credit!”

And remember, they also had ATM Taylor build them a lavish luxury owner suite last year before the fight. That was on Glen’s dime as well, and he didn’t think it was necessary. It’s hard to argue ARod and Lore wanted that for the team, that was all for them. It seems to me, rather than credit them for spending other people’s money, more honorable owners would have waited a year on their luxury suite, and paid for the bulk of these improvements with their own money.

I guess we’ll see if they continue to spend on the team when it’s their own money. We are banking on them lying to the NBA Board of Governors and Carlisle, so fingers crossed!

Ha, good points shrink!

I'm not sure it's as straightforward as shrink makes it out here. Glen bought the Timberwolves for $88.5M back in the 90s. It was valued at $1.5B when Glen first agreed to terms with ARod and Lore. They made their first payment of 20% of the value, which would have been about $300M, which by itself is 3X more than what Glen paid for it!

So now Glen just cashed in to the tune of $300M and ceded 20% ownership with a contract to sell the rest in the coming years. Is it really accurate to say that any improvements and spending by Arod and Lore was on "Glen's dime", as if they did it in a total vacuum and Glen had to make a terrible sacrifice to dig into his own investments to fund things?? I don't think so! If someone takes a 20% stake and are on their way to being 100% owners, I think they deserve a say in how things get done. Glen still had to approve.

[shrink]

Isn’t it fun to make improvements as minority owners when the bulk of the payment comes from the majority owner? “You mean, if we pay 20%, we can get something worth 5 times that amount? And we’ll own it all later? Here’s our giant list of improvements, and give us all the credit!”

And remember, they also had ATM Taylor build them a lavish luxury owner suite last year before the fight. That was on Glen’s dime as well, and he didn’t think it was necessary. It’s hard to argue ARod and Lore wanted that for the team, that was all for them. It seems to me, rather than credit them for spending other people’s money, more honorable owners would have waited a year on their luxury suite, and paid for the bulk of these improvements with their own money.

I guess we’ll see if they continue to spend on the team when it’s their own money. We are banking on them lying to the NBA Board of Governors and Carlisle, so fingers crossed!

Ha, good points shrink!

I'm not sure it's as straightforward as shrink makes it out here. Glen bought the Timberwolves for $88.5M back in the 90s. It was valued at $1.5B when Glen first agreed to terms with ARod and Lore. They made their first payment of 20% of the value, which would have been about $300M, which by itself is 3X more than what Glen paid for it!

So now Glen just cashed in to the tune of $300M and ceded 20% ownership with a contract to sell the rest in the coming years. Is it really accurate to say that any improvements and spending by Arod and Lore was on "Glen's dime", as if they did it in a total vacuum and Glen had to make a terrible sacrifice to dig into his own investments to fund things?? I don't think so! If someone takes a 20% stake and are on their way to being 100% owners, I think they deserve a say in how things get done. Glen still had to approve.

“The rich guy I don’t like is rich, so he should pay even more to the rich guys I do like!”

What Glen paid for the Wolves in the 90’s has no relevance of the price of the exchange two years ago. ARod and Lore bought the $1.5 bil Wolves of 2021, not the 90’s.

Horrible justification.


When ARod and Lore paid 20% for 20% of ownership, they only had to pay 20% of upgrades, but they receive 100% of the value of those upgrades when the sale is completed. Of course they are going to want a ton of upgrades now, when they only pay a fifth the price to get them, rather than waiting to own the team and have to pay for them all for themselves. Moreover, every extra dollar they got Taylor to pay for their upgrades does not change the $1.5 ARod and Lore - it’s free money for them, if they stick Taylor with the big chunk of the bill.

It takes a lot of ego, and biased fans, for them to take credit for spending so much of Taylor’s money, with a “look what we did!”

[Lipoli390]

Ha, good points shrink!

I'm not sure it's as straightforward as shrink makes it out here. Glen bought the Timberwolves for $88.5M back in the 90s. It was valued at $1.5B when Glen first agreed to terms with ARod and Lore. They made their first payment of 20% of the value, which would have been about $300M, which by itself is 3X more than what Glen paid for it!

So now Glen just cashed in to the tune of $300M and ceded 20% ownership with a contract to sell the rest in the coming years. Is it really accurate to say that any improvements and spending by Arod and Lore was on "Glen's dime", as if they did it in a total vacuum and Glen had to make a terrible sacrifice to dig into his own investments to fund things?? I don't think so! If someone takes a 20% stake and are on their way to being 100% owners, I think they deserve a say in how things get done. Glen still had to approve.

“The rich guy I don’t like is rich, so he should pay even more to the rich guys I do like!”

What Glen paid for the Wolves in the 90’s has no relevance of the price of the exchange two years ago. ARod and Lore bought the $1.5 bil Wolves of 2021, not the 90’s.

Horrible justification.


When ARod and Lore paid 20% for 20% of ownership, they only had to pay 20% of upgrades, but they receive 100% of the value of those upgrades when the sale is completed. Of course they are going to want a ton of upgrades now, when they only pay a fifth the price to get them, rather than waiting to own the team and have to pay for them all for themselves. Moreover, every extra dollar they got Taylor to pay for their upgrades does not change the $1.5 ARod and Lore - it’s free money for them, if they stick Taylor with the big chunk of the bill.

It takes a lot of ego, and biased fans, for them to take credit for spending so much of Taylor’s money, with a “look what we did!”

Shrink - That’s not how it works. FNG is right on this. Those upgrades were a business expense for a business co-owned by Taylor, A-Rod/Lore, and some other minority shareholders. As majority owner, Glen had to sign off on those upgrades; no one forced him to approve them. And the overall cost of those upgrades was trivial in relation to the value of the business and the wealth of all the individuals involved. He approved those upgrades just as he approved the Rudy deal and then the KAT deal. As majority owner, Glen Taylor bears ultimately responsibility for all those things and everything else that happened on his watch as majority owner. He’s not a victim here.

Glen signed an agreement to sell the team and the buyers accepted a staged purchase arrangement that Glen insisted on even though they preferred to buy it outright. As a result, they ended up borrowing at much higher interest rates for the final stage of the purchase than they would have paid if Glen would have allowed them to buy the entire team at the outset. I am certain the staged purchase arrangement that Glen insisted on cost the buyers a lot more money than the price of owners suite Glen agreed to for the business he co-owned. But that doesn’t mean A-Rod and Lore were victims either. All these guys are sophisticated, extremely wealthy businessmen who agreed to some things they didn’t like. They had their reasons and they are all ultimately responsible for the consequences of their own decisions.

There are no victims here - except the fans who had to ensure a year of uncertainty because Glen tried to back out of a deal he insisted on based on a theory analogous to being required to pay for your house before the closing date. In this case the closing date could not happened before League approval, which is why there was an extension clause in the contract that A-Rod and Lore invoked after submitting all the paperwork showing that they had secured the financing necessary to consummate the purchase. If there’s a bad actor in this saga it’s Glen, but it doesn’t really matter. As I wrote, I’ll be forever grateful to Glen for keeping the team and the excitement he brought to the organization when he hired McHale and Saunders. I’m also thankful to him for spending on players and spending to upgrade Target Center. Nevertheless, he’s not a victim.

[FNG]

It's been a complicated period for TC, having to make decisions not knowing who was going to prevail. I've wondered how big decisions (like the KAT trade) have been made. I suspect that TC had to keep both sets of owners in the loop...can't imagine he would have made such a huge move without the blessing of both Taylor and ALore. It makes me wonder also if there were any other moves he wanted to make that were nixed by either party. I think nobody is more grateful (other than Alore) to have this thing resolved than TC...his job has gotten much easier.