It's time to move on from DLO....

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Sundog
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Sundog »

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Need I remind you about the head idiot theory? Unless Rosas ends up somewhere he can trade for DLO, don't expect to get much of anything for him. The benefit to getting rid of him will be the cap space.


Ha, did Dlo come to your house and eat your favorite snacks or something? Kick your dog?
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Tactical unit
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Tactical unit »

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Need I remind you about the head idiot theory? Unless Rosas ends up somewhere he can trade for DLO, don't expect to get much of anything for him. The benefit to getting rid of him will be the cap space.


He is advising NYN so there might just be a chance.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

Sundog60 wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Need I remind you about the head idiot theory? Unless Rosas ends up somewhere he can trade for DLO, don't expect to get much of anything for him. The benefit to getting rid of him will be the cap space.


Ha, did Dlo come to your house and eat your favorite snacks or something? Kick your dog?

Just being real Sunny
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

Tactical unit wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Need I remind you about the head idiot theory? Unless Rosas ends up somewhere he can trade for DLO, don't expect to get much of anything for him. The benefit to getting rid of him will be the cap space.


He is advising NYN so there might just be a chance.

There you go. We can hope.
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kekgeek
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by kekgeek »

monsterpile wrote:
Q-was-here wrote:I would never advocate a fire sale on DLO, as he is not someone we should be desperately trying to move at any cost. But I think this franchise needs to consider him outside of their core building blocks, which means they should either a) move him for a decent return now, or b) keep him for now on an expiring deal. I'm just not comfortable signing him to a contract that might be difficult to trade, especially if he regresses next season.

If we do hold onto him, he has got to become the third option in that starting lineup - and I mean a distant third. Get that usage closer to 20% and start playing off the ball more. He simply isn't efficient enough to be taking as many shots as he normally does. And because he can't break down guys off the bounce, he has to rely on really difficult pull up 3s and leaning mid-rangers. It's great he has those in the tool bag when the shot clock is running down, but those simply aren't good shots under normal circumstances.


I think one thing to consider is that Edwards having someone as a perimeter player next to him that does take up some decent usage may be a positive for another year or so because I think him not having to always be the guy on offense may help him on the other end both physically and mentally. Some day we can hope and expect he ascends to the level where he can do both but I do think we need another perimeter player whether it's a wing or guy that guards Pg that handles the ball a decent amount at least as much as a guy like Smart in Boston.


I agree, with you Monster. The issue with the wolves current roster is it's a bunch of talented players that are pretty poor playmakers outside of D'lo and Jmac. Our starting lineup going forward, Ant at this time doesn't make others better, same with McDaniels and Vando, Kat has moments of solid playmaking but he isn't great.

We saw it in the playoffs in the 4th Q, when D'lo was struggling wolves offense went straight to iso ball because the wolves don't have great playmakers.

I'm not against getting rid of D'lo but wolves need to add some playmaking next to Ant and for the bench unit. Dlo provided the majority of that last year for the wolves. Do guys like Naz, Vando, Beasley take a step back if not playing next to Dlo
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

kekgeek1 wrote:
monsterpile wrote:
Q-was-here wrote:I would never advocate a fire sale on DLO, as he is not someone we should be desperately trying to move at any cost. But I think this franchise needs to consider him outside of their core building blocks, which means they should either a) move him for a decent return now, or b) keep him for now on an expiring deal. I'm just not comfortable signing him to a contract that might be difficult to trade, especially if he regresses next season.

If we do hold onto him, he has got to become the third option in that starting lineup - and I mean a distant third. Get that usage closer to 20% and start playing off the ball more. He simply isn't efficient enough to be taking as many shots as he normally does. And because he can't break down guys off the bounce, he has to rely on really difficult pull up 3s and leaning mid-rangers. It's great he has those in the tool bag when the shot clock is running down, but those simply aren't good shots under normal circumstances.


I think one thing to consider is that Edwards having someone as a perimeter player next to him that does take up some decent usage may be a positive for another year or so because I think him not having to always be the guy on offense may help him on the other end both physically and mentally. Some day we can hope and expect he ascends to the level where he can do both but I do think we need another perimeter player whether it's a wing or guy that guards Pg that handles the ball a decent amount at least as much as a guy like Smart in Boston.


I agree, with you Monster. The issue with the wolves current roster is it's a bunch of talented players that are pretty poor playmakers outside of D'lo and Jmac. Our starting lineup going forward, Ant at this time doesn't make others better, same with McDaniels and Vando, Kat has moments of solid playmaking but he isn't great.

We saw it in the playoffs in the 4th Q, when D'lo was struggling wolves offense went straight to iso ball because the wolves don't have great playmakers.

I'm not against getting rid of D'lo but wolves need to add some playmaking next to Ant and for the bench unit. Dlo provided the majority of that last year for the wolves. Do guys like Naz, Vando, Beasley take a step back if not playing next to Dlo

DLO averages less than 6 assists per game on his career. We're not exactly talking about John Stockton here.
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kekgeek
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by kekgeek »

CoolBreeze44 wrote:
kekgeek1 wrote:
monsterpile wrote:
Q-was-here wrote:I would never advocate a fire sale on DLO, as he is not someone we should be desperately trying to move at any cost. But I think this franchise needs to consider him outside of their core building blocks, which means they should either a) move him for a decent return now, or b) keep him for now on an expiring deal. I'm just not comfortable signing him to a contract that might be difficult to trade, especially if he regresses next season.

If we do hold onto him, he has got to become the third option in that starting lineup - and I mean a distant third. Get that usage closer to 20% and start playing off the ball more. He simply isn't efficient enough to be taking as many shots as he normally does. And because he can't break down guys off the bounce, he has to rely on really difficult pull up 3s and leaning mid-rangers. It's great he has those in the tool bag when the shot clock is running down, but those simply aren't good shots under normal circumstances.


I think one thing to consider is that Edwards having someone as a perimeter player next to him that does take up some decent usage may be a positive for another year or so because I think him not having to always be the guy on offense may help him on the other end both physically and mentally. Some day we can hope and expect he ascends to the level where he can do both but I do think we need another perimeter player whether it's a wing or guy that guards Pg that handles the ball a decent amount at least as much as a guy like Smart in Boston.


I agree, with you Monster. The issue with the wolves current roster is it's a bunch of talented players that are pretty poor playmakers outside of D'lo and Jmac. Our starting lineup going forward, Ant at this time doesn't make others better, same with McDaniels and Vando, Kat has moments of solid playmaking but he isn't great.

We saw it in the playoffs in the 4th Q, when D'lo was struggling wolves offense went straight to iso ball because the wolves don't have great playmakers.

I'm not against getting rid of D'lo but wolves need to add some playmaking next to Ant and for the bench unit. Dlo provided the majority of that last year for the wolves. Do guys like Naz, Vando, Beasley take a step back if not playing next to Dlo

DLO averages less than 6 assists per game on his career. We're not exactly talking about John Stockton here.


Wolves played 11 guys most of the year last year in Dlo, bev, Ant, Vando, Kat, Naz, jmac, McDaniels, Beasley, Nowell, prince. Of those 10 guys not named Dlo 7 of them were better with Dlo on the court compared to not on the court. Only Naz, Prince and Jmac were lineups for worse when playing with Dlo. In this Naz and Prince lineups Naz and Prince were better with Dlo when Dlo was the primary ball handler (the Dlo and Jmac lineups really hurt those 2 individual lineups)

From a statistical standpoint the wolves were just better when Dlo was on the court then off last season. Now would similar results happen if the wolves replaced Dlo with a average caliber Starting PG, I'm not sure.

It's a really interesting to see what will happen with the Dlo situation.
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kekgeek
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by kekgeek »

If Dlo is brought back next year, I think the wolves need to stop running those 2 PG lineups with Dlo.

Back to back season where the 2 PG lineups have just been bad. Last year with Rubio this year with Jmac.

Both Jmac and Dlo were really good when they got to run the offense being number 2 and 3 in on/off numbers on the wolves but they were terrible when they played together
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

D'Angelo Russell posted a 33.1 assist percentage last year-- good enough for 11th in the NBA. He also carried a 25.1 usage rate-- 40th in the league for those who were curious. Only eight players in the league matched or exceeded both of those values last season and of those, Russell had the third-lowest turnover percentage. In short, the guy is a very good facilitator and does so without turning the ball over, especially when considering his usage rate. He continues to be underrated in this regard.

Additionally, Synergy Sports came up with a new metric "to find out which NBA players make their teammates' shots easier and which make their opponents' shots more difficult" called Synergy Shot Quality (SSQ). To look under the hood in how it's calculated I'll leave the link https://synergysports.com/impacting-other-players-shot-quality/here, but it's simply an adjusted plus-minus metric with a focus on teammate scoring values.

Expected points added per 100 teammate shots as a result of improved shot quality, during the last two NBA seasons:

1. Luka Doncic (5.3)
2. Trae Young (4.9)
3. LeBron James (4.7)
4. James Harden (4.6)
5. Nikola Jokic (4.5)
6. Paul George (4.5)
7. Stephen Curry (4.4)
8. LaMelo Ball (4.2)
9. Kevin Durant (4.1)
10. D'Angelo Russell (3.5)
11. Damian Lillard (3.4)
12. Joel Embiid (2.9)
13. Kyrie Irving (2.8 )
14. Marcus Smart (2.7)
15. Kyle Lowry (2.7)
16. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (2.7)
17. Karl-Anthony Towns (2.7)
18. Darius Garland (2.6)
19. Lonzo Ball (2.5)
20. Draymond Green (2.5)

Are we talking about a superstar player in Russell? Of course not, but there is an argument that he's one of the 10 best shot creators, or facilitators, in the entire league. That carries value, especially on a Timberwolves roster that severely lacks that skill.
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Monster
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Monster »

kekgeek1 wrote:If Dlo is brought back next year, I think the wolves need to stop running those 2 PG lineups with Dlo.

Back to back season where the 2 PG lineups have just been bad. Last year with Rubio this year with Jmac.

Both Jmac and Dlo were really good when they got to run the offense being number 2 and 3 in on/off numbers on the wolves but they were terrible when they played together


Just curious what were the numbers with Beverly? How about McLaughlin the previous season? How did PGs fair playing with Nowell?
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