In Defense of Thaddeus Young

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Bazz proved that he was capable of being an NBA player before he got the uplift in minutes. It was when Bazz showed consistency in his performance that Flip decided to trade Corey. He knew he had someone that could play and be productive.

Bennett doesn't fit this at all. For ten games he's quiet and gets worked on defense, then one game he'll have the 18-footer going and we're supposed to get excited. You don't reward inconsistent play/effort with a starting job. I don't care if AB's 18, 22 or 27. That's just not a formula for success. He hasn't even earned the backup PF position as I actually think Hummel is far better.

Also, how is he supposed to magically get better by going against starters? He can't even handle bench players right now! Not to mention we saw Bazz thrive against second units and then have a tougher time against starters. It's illogical what some of you are saying.

I agree Cam, that's the point I've been trying to make; it's twisted logic. What's even more amazing is that we did exactly what Khans and Doper are advocating for Bennett with Zach LaVine (i.e. promote to starting lineup without first earning it off the bench) and Flip finally had to demote him back to the bench because the offense ran so poorly with him as our starting PG.

Khans/Doper, We'll just agree to disagree on this one as clearly we have divergent views of player development.

It's not even close to the same thing. Lavine isn't a PG and he is being asked to run the offense. It'd be the equivalent of starting AB at center and telling him to be the defensive anchor. The skill set doesn't match the role he would be asked to play.

[apollotsg [enjin:6592798]]

I was wrong when I thought Thad was going to play better defense than Love. I even thought the rebounding drop off wasn't going to be a big, but it is.

[Carlos Danger]

It's not even close to the same thing. Lavine isn't a PG and he is being asked to run the offense. It'd be the equivalent of starting AB at center and telling him to be the defensive anchor. The skill set doesn't match the role he would be asked to play.

Yep. People keep overlooking that LaVine is playing out of position. And actually, the same could probably be said about Bennett. Per Basketball Reference, Bennett's minutes have been pretty much split between PF (52%) and C (48%). I didn't think he was spending that much time at C....but if that's true, then it's more reason to want to give Bennett a more extended look at PF only now that we finally signed a backup C.

I understand the concept of "earning minutes". But if we went by that - we'd need to truck in 15 new guys. This year is a bust. Use the remaining games to evaluate talent. What shows up on film can hopefully be used to make good decisions for assembling a much better team next year.

[thedoper]

I agree Cam, that's the point I've been trying to make; it's twisted logic. What's even more amazing is that we did exactly what Khans and Doper are advocating for Bennett with Zach LaVine (i.e. promote to starting lineup without first earning it off the bench) and Flip finally had to demote him back to the bench because the offense ran so poorly with him as our starting PG.

Khans/Doper, We'll just agree to disagree on this one as clearly we have divergent views of player development.

Well it would be fine to demote AB back to nothing after giving him some more playing time. There is no reason to have Thad wasting space in our lineup right now unless we would be crazy enough to believe he was a good long term solution at the 4. But there are tangible benefits to AB getting more pt with NBA talent. We can disagree but there is nothing twisted about the logic that the best way to develop someone's skills is to get them playing against elite competition. This is the criteria of developing elite level skills in every sport. How can AB ever learn to defend against LA without playing against him? That is twisted logic. If he can't do it, that is fine. Our season is in the toilet right now anyway.

[TheGrey08]

There's a couple important thing people are forgetting when debating Bennett getting more minutes/playing with starters vs playing with/against bench guys.

1) While he's playing mostly against lesser bench guys, he's also playing with lesser bench guys. We've had bench guys starting most of the season so our bench is depleted and Bennett is playing practically with 3rd string at times.

2) Some people actually DO excel against better players. It's similar to the coaching style of yelling at a player in front of everyone vs pulling them aside. It's not 1 size fits all and none of us know whether it would help him or not so stop acting like you do.

Other thoughts:
3) I agree, Bennett hasn't earned shit so far, but Thad hasn't done shit to earn it either outside of being the 7 yr vet. How can people use that argument against Bennett and not Thad? At this point what the hell do we have to lose? One of them is 21 with the chance to still develop and the other does not and that is the key. Bennett needs to be throw into the fire and given some run with our better players especially when Rubio is back. That will tell us a lot.

4) What centers has Bennett spent most of the season playing with?
It would be interesting to see what % of his minutes were playing with a legit center.

5) How much time does he spend down low during games?
I question how much they are working him inside during practice. Flip wants him to do the hustle/dirty work, but are they working on his inside game and forcing him to grind it out?

[TheGrey08]

It's not even close to the same thing. Lavine isn't a PG and he is being asked to run the offense. It'd be the equivalent of starting AB at center and telling him to be the defensive anchor. The skill set doesn't match the role he would be asked to play.

Yep. People keep overlooking that LaVine is playing out of position. And actually, the same could probably be said about Bennett. Per Basketball Reference, Bennett's minutes have been pretty much split between PF (52%) and C (48%). I didn't think he was spending that much time at C....but if that's true, then it's more reason to want to give Bennett a more extended look at PF only now that we finally signed a backup C.

I understand the concept of "earning minutes". But if we went by that - we'd need to truck in 15 new guys. This year is a bust. Use the remaining games to evaluate talent. What shows up on film can hopefully be used to make good decisions for assembling a much better team next year.

Good points. Who you play with certainly affects your game. Just look at how Wiggins really started to excel with Bazz starting next to him.

[MikkeMan]

4) What centers has Bennett spent most of the season playing with?
It would be interesting to see what % of his minutes were playing with a legit center.

Bennett has played 244 minutes with Dieng, 104 minutes with Jeff Adrien and 42 minutes with Pek. This is totally 390 minutes. So it means that he has played about 190 minutes without other big. (mainly with Hummel)

Bennett/Dieng combination has worked clearly worse than other ones. Wolves have been outscored by 24.1 points per 100 possessions when they have been playing. Bennett/Thad combination has been almost as bad, they have been outscored by 18.2 points and Bennett/Pek combination has been outscored by 12.8 points.

Bennett/Adrien and Bennett/Hummel combinations have been clearly most effective combinations that include Bennett. They have been outscored only by 2.4 and 0.4 points per 100 possessions.

[MikkeMan]

Yep. People keep overlooking that LaVine is playing out of position. And actually, the same could probably be said about Bennett. Per Basketball Reference, Bennett's minutes have been pretty much split between PF (52%) and C (48%). I didn't think he was spending that much time at C....but if that's true, then it's more reason to want to give Bennett a more extended look at PF only now that we finally signed a backup C.

It seems that they have listed Bennett as center when he has played with Adrien. But based on lineups statistics from basketball reference, Wolves have played far worse when Bennett has been paired with Pek or Dieng than when he has been paired with Hummel or Adrien.

[Carlos Danger]

It seems that they have listed Bennett as center when he has played with Adrien. But based on lineups statistics from basketball reference, Wolves have played far worse when Bennett has been paired with Pek or Dieng than when he has been paired with Hummel or Adrien.

I think the problem is that we only have 600 minutes of data this year and 600 minutes of data from last year. Combined, he doesn't even have a full season's worth of minutes. At age 21, without even a full season's worth of minutes - some are not ready to throw in the towel. Other's have already decided (similar to how some wrote off Wiggins after his 1st 20 games).

Looking at line ups is interesting, but we have to keep sample sizes in mind as well as the fact that there are multiple combinations which might produce completely different results. For instance, the best producing line up for the Wolves this year has been: Bennett, Dieng, Muhammed, Wiggins, Williams who are a plus 46. Now, I'm not saying Bennett is the key to winning right now. But I am saying at 6 wins and 31 losses, it makes sense to get as much data on players as you can so that you can assemble a better team for next year.

[MikkeMan]

Looking at line ups is interesting, but we have to keep sample sizes in mind as well as the fact that there are multiple combinations which might produce completely different results. For instance, the best producing line up for the Wolves this year has been: Bennett, Dieng, Muhammed, Wiggins, Williams who are a plus 46. Now, I'm not saying Bennett is the key to winning right now. But I am saying at 6 wins and 31 losses, it makes sense to get as much data on players as you can so that you can assemble a better team for next year.

Actually best producing line up has been G. Dieng, R. Rubio, A. Wiggins, M. Williams and T. Young that is plus 62.5 per 100 possessions. But it doesn't make much sense to look 5 (or 4) man combinations because most of those have extremely small sample size. For example Bennett, Dieng, Muhammed, Wiggins, Williams that you mentioned has played together only less than 15 minutes and lineup above has played only about 3 minutes.:)

Looking 2-man combinations makes much more sense because there sample size is already somehow reliable and based on that Bennett/Dieng combination has been awful. One reason for that might be that quite big part of minutes for Bennett/Dieng combination might have played early in season while Thad was out because of death of his mother. During that 5 game span, Wolves posted woeful 127.5 defensive rating.