In Defense of Thaddeus Young

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Boy, he's taking a lot of heat. I think his poor play is 30% his fault and 70% circumstantial. Since I'm trying to defend him here, I will focus on his circumstances, both past and present. First, the past:

Thad Young's best years were in Philadelphia as a 3rd, 4th, or 5th scoring option, usually coming off the bench. He played nearly all of those years with two or more of the following team mates: Andre Iguodala, Andre Miller, Jrue Holiday, and Louis Williams. In these circumstances, he thrived, regularly posting very solid numbers across the board. And he was especially efficient offensively. So to recap, here are the common themes of the circumstances in which he was successful:

1) Played in the Eastern Conference
2) Not among the top 2 scoring options
3) Played with multiple ball-handlers/distributors - not just decent point guards, but wings too.
4) Came off the bench the majority of seasons.

Now think about his current circumstances. Not a single one of the above conditions are in place right now:

1) He plays in the much tougher Western Conference
2) He is our #1 or #2 scoring option, along with Shabazz Muhammed
3) He never plays with more than one competent ball-handler at one time (LaVine or Williams), and one of them - LaVine - is a 19-year old rookie who Flip has a tight leash on and we're not even sure is really a point guard!
4) He's started every game he's played in.

Last year should have been a hint that Thad's game was not "scalable", meaning that he couldn't take on a larger load without a drop-off in efficiency. That's because all his old running mates from the prior Philly regime were gone and he was left behind. By default, he became the top option for Philly last season. He proceeded to have one of his worst years of his career, albeit not as bad as this season. But he's in a much tougher conference now.

Like I said, I don't think all of his poor play falls singularly on circumstances. He has made some horrific unforced errors of late (and the crap screens bug me too Volans!), but there is no question in my mind that the circumstances he finds himself in are a worst-case scenario.

[Coolbreeze44]

Interesting Q. But there isn't much circumstantial about his defense. Speaking from an offensive viewpoint your post has some merit.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

By the way, speaking of circumstances, notice how Corey Brewer is suddenly lighting it up and providing a huge boost off the bench for Houston?

And going in a different direction, but closer to home, how about Shabazz Muhammed's play since being promoted to the starting lineup? He hasn't been nearly as efficient now that he's playing more minutes and up against opposing team's top defenders.

Circumstances matter a huge deal and we've seen how the injuries to our top playmaker and two top scorers has led to a domino effect where other guys are being stretched beyond their capabilities. No one in our current starting lineup - except may be Dieng - is either physically ready and/or skilled enough to fill the current role we have them in today.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Interesting Q. But there isn't much circumstantial about his defense. Speaking from an offensive viewpoint your post has some merit.

Hard for me to argue that one Cool, although we are a much better defensive team with him on the floor versus off of it. When Bennett subs for Young, we go from bad defensively to absolutely horrendous.

I think this is where being in the Western Conference and being flat out overmatched most nights by superior physical specimens is taking its toll on him.

[Coolbreeze44]

Interesting Q. But there isn't much circumstantial about his defense. Speaking from an offensive viewpoint your post has some merit.

Hard for me to argue that one Cool, although we are a much better defensive team with him on the floor versus off of it. When Bennett subs for Young, we go from bad defensively to absolutely horrendous.

I think this is where being in the Western Conference and being flat out overmatched most nights by superior physical specimens is taking its toll on him.

Really? That's surprising to me. But is it because Bennett is typically playing with the likes of Hummel and Mo Williams?

[Carlos Danger]

I agree with you on this one Q. Thad hasn't been good here. But, like you - I think it has more to do with "fit" vs. him just being a terrible basketball player as some are saying. He had a career PER of about 17 during his 7 years in Philly. That's a pretty decent track record. Obviously Flip thought enough of him to give up a 1st round pick to get him. I think he's better than what we've seen lately. Flip has to share some of the blame for things. He has to make some adjustments. Injuries have hurt us. But having Bennett deep in the doghouse isn't helping either. I had hoped Bennett would be pushing Thad for a starting role by now. If Thad is playing as poorly as some are saying, what does that say about Bennett?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Cool, Yes, there is a 7 point per 100 possession difference in defense between Young and Bennett. It's 110 for Young and 117 for Bennett. That is not insignificant. The offense is about the same per 100 possessions. Keep in mind Bennett is playing almost exclusively against opposing team benches.

In terms of who he is playing with, here are the top three players he's played with in terms of total minutes:

#1 Wiggins
#2 Muhammed
#3 LaVine

That will change eventually now that all three of those guys are starters. I think Wiggins is #1 because he has been our healthiest player this year and Flip has played him more minutes than anyone on the team. He would be #1 on a lot of our player's lists.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I agree with you on this one Q. Thad hasn't been good here. But, like you - I think it has more to do with "fit" vs. him just being a terrible basketball player as some are saying. He had a career PER of about 17 during his 7 years in Philly. That's a pretty decent track record. Obviously Flip thought enough of him to give up a 1st round pick to get him. I think he's better than what we've seen lately. Flip has to share some of the blame for things. He has to make some adjustments. Injuries have hurt us. But having Bennett deep in the doghouse isn't helping either. I had hoped Bennett would be pushing Thad for a starting role by now. If Thad is playing as poorly as some are saying, what does that say about Bennett?

Trust me, Bennett is worse. Hummel might actually be outplaying both of these guys, but that means someone else has to take on the scoring load, and whoever it is, they aren't ready for it either.

Here is another stat for Young that I think is a bellwether for his efficiency: Dunks. He has four of them this year. Four (!) This is so far below his career rate of dunks it's not even funny. He almost never gets an easy basket these days because Flip isolates him at the top of the key and never runs sets that gets him in motion off the ball. Again, if we had two ball-handlers out there and some other scorers, I think he would be getting a ton more easy looks.

[Coolbreeze44]

Cool, Yes, there is a 7 point per 100 possession difference in defense between Young and Bennett. It's 110 for Young and 117 for Bennett. That is not insignificant. The offense is about the same per 100 possessions. Keep in mind Bennett is playing almost exclusively against opposing team benches.

In terms of who he is playing with, here are the top three players he's played with in terms of total minutes:

#1 Wiggins
#2 Muhammed
#3 LaVine

That will change eventually now that all three of those guys are starters. I think Wiggins is #1 because he has been our healthiest player this year and Flip has played him more minutes than anyone on the team. He would be #1 on a lot of our player's lists.

Thanks for the info. Can we agree that Thad is terrible in man on man situations? I just never see him stop anybody.

[mjs34]

Bennett has the same defensive rtg as Young at 111, and a higher offensive rtg of 98 compared to Young's 96. Bennett's win shares/48 is higher as well.

Using the eye test Bennett is a much more effective defender, and twice the rebounder Thad is. My only complaint with Bennett is his inconsistent motor, but that seems like a much bigger issue on the offensive end.

Q,it dawned on me that several of the circumstances you used for Young were applicable when you and Abe were making comparisons for Wiggins.