Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I think DLO can be a key player on a winning team, but the problem is that all three of our top guys are sub-par defenders. That's why a Simmons-DLO swap kind of makes sense for both teams. The Sixers get a highly skilled shot maker that will create even more space for Embiid and the Wolves add a guy that can defend.

Yep, Q. I've always thought a DLO/Simmons swap would serve the interests of both teams. I never thought it was feasible before Morey overplayed his hand. But Morey has a flawed player on his hands who will hold out until he's traded. Morey has very little leverage. The Wolves would still have to give up more than DLO, but in my view, not a lot more. If I were Rosas, I'd offer DLO, Bolmaro, and their choice of Jaylen Nowell, Josh Okogie, or Jake Layman. I'd add two of our three 2022 2nd-round picks, our 2023 1st-round pick (unprotected) and maybe a 2024 1st-round pick swap.

This is more interesting, I will admit. Need to remove McDaniels from discussions though. I'm fascinated by balmaro around potential, but based on what I know now he could totally end up a bust. McDaniels on the other hand could be a core piece moving forward.

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I think DLO can be a key player on a winning team, but the problem is that all three of our top guys are sub-par defenders. That's why a Simmons-DLO swap kind of makes sense for both teams. The Sixers get a highly skilled shot maker that will create even more space for Embiid and the Wolves add a guy that can defend.

Yep, Q. I've always thought a DLO/Simmons swap would serve the interests of both teams. I never thought it was feasible before Morey overplayed his hand. But Morey has a flawed player on his hands who will hold out until he's traded. Morey has very little leverage. The Wolves would still have to give up more than DLO, but in my view, not a lot more. If I were Rosas, I'd offer DLO, Bolmaro, and their choice of Jaylen Nowell, Josh Okogie, or Jake Layman. I'd add two of our three 2022 2nd-round picks, our 2023 1st-round pick (unprotected) and maybe a 2024 1st-round pick swap.

Morey doesn't want DLO Lip. He's going to get a better player than that. It might not happen soon, but I don't think there's any question that someone will pony up for an all NBA player.

Q12543 wrote:

cpg29 wrote:Can you name a championship team that has a membership of their big three that's just for defense? Asking for a friend

cpg29 wrote:In today's NBA I mean

Draymond Green is pretty close. And I do think the fact that Simmons can handle the ball, find open guys, and finish efficiently around the paint counts for something on offense.

Honestly Jrue Holiday was sorta this type of guy for the Bucks in the finals. Let's be honest the Bucks didn't really have a big 3 (maybe not even a big 2) and they won a title.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I think DLO can be a key player on a winning team, but the problem is that all three of our top guys are sub-par defenders. That's why a Simmons-DLO swap kind of makes sense for both teams. The Sixers get a highly skilled shot maker that will create even more space for Embiid and the Wolves add a guy that can defend.

Yep, Q. I've always thought a DLO/Simmons swap would serve the interests of both teams. I never thought it was feasible before Morey overplayed his hand. But Morey has a flawed player on his hands who will hold out until he's traded. Morey has very little leverage. The Wolves would still have to give up more than DLO, but in my view, not a lot more. If I were Rosas, I'd offer DLO, Bolmaro, and their choice of Jaylen Nowell, Josh Okogie, or Jake Layman. I'd add two of our three 2022 2nd-round picks, our 2023 1st-round pick (unprotected) and maybe a 2024 1st-round pick swap.

Morey doesn't want DLO Lip. He's going to get a better player than that. It might not happen soon, but I don't think there's any question that someone will pony up for an all NBA player.

Cool - As you've seen from my posts, I tend to agree with you. I'm not sure someone will pony up an all-NBA guard, but I think some other teams will offer lead guards Morey would probably prefer over DLO -- lead guards like VanVleet, Brogdon or Sexton. Having said that, the DLO from the 2018-19 season with the Nets would be a great fit for the Sixers. So while I don't think Morey will end up taking a DLO package from the Wolves, i wouldn't be completely surprised if he did. DLO is a talented lead guard. His defensive rating wasn't terrible in his 2018-19 season and playing with Embiid, Harris and Thybulle would cover for a lot of his defensive deficiencies. I can certainly see the case for a Simmons/DLO swap - with the Wolves giving up some additional assets.

Q12543 wrote:

cpg29 wrote:Can you name a championship team that has a membership of their big three that's just for defense? Asking for a friend

cpg29 wrote:In today's NBA I mean

Draymond Green is pretty close. And I do think the fact that Simmons can handle the ball, find open guys, and finish efficiently around the paint counts for something on offense.

Yeah, cpq's suggestion that Simmons is "just for defense" doesn't jive with the stats. I think we can all agree that Simmons is a poor free throw shooter and seldom takes a shot beyond 10 feet...those are palpable flaws. But offense is so much more than that, and Ben's stats last season stack up nicely against our guys in many offensive areas:

Assists per game: 6.9, more than any Timberwolf
Offensive rebounds per game: 1.6, only KAT and Vando had more
Total rebounds per game: 7.2, only KAT had more
TS%: 58.4%, only KAT, Naz and Vando were better
ORtg: 114, again only KAT, Naz and Vando were better
Assist to Turnover ratio: 2.3 to 1, only Rubio and JMac were better

That's a lot of important offensive categories where Simmons would have led the Wolves or been in the top 4 last season. And it should be noted that in each of these 6 categories his stats were better than Dlo, Ant and Beasley...3 guys we're agonizing about maybe having to give up in exchange for the best defensive player in the league!

So yeah, if 3-point and free throw shooting are the only offensive stats that matter, Simmons would be considered "just for defense"...and so would Giannis. But I would guess most of us would say there's more to offense than just those two things.

Think about how you guys are talking about Jaden McDaniels after the OKAY rookie year he had. He's probably more potential than production at this point.

Now think about how the Sacramento Kings are probably talking about Tyrese Haliburton, who by all means showed way more promise and production last year. Think about how the Toronto Raptors probably discuss OG Anunoby. The same goes for the Cleveland Cavaliers and Darius Garland and maybe Collin Sexton.

If you wouldn't include McDaniels in a trade for Ben Simmons -- or rather you don't think the Wolves should -- then why would these other teams make their objectively superior young talent available either?

This just comes back to what I've preached on here far too many times. The Philadelphia Sixers are going to trade Simmons for far less than what's expected.

FNG wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

cpg29 wrote:Can you name a championship team that has a membership of their big three that's just for defense? Asking for a friend

cpg29 wrote:In today's NBA I mean

Draymond Green is pretty close. And I do think the fact that Simmons can handle the ball, find open guys, and finish efficiently around the paint counts for something on offense.

Yeah, cpq's suggestion that Simmons is "just for defense" doesn't jive with the stats. I think we can all agree that Simmons is a poor free throw shooter and seldom takes a shot beyond 10 feet...those are palpable flaws. But offense is so much more than that, and Ben's stats last season stack up nicely against our guys in many offensive areas:

Assists per game: 6.9, more than any Timberwolf
Offensive rebounds per game: 1.6, only KAT and Vando had more
Total rebounds per game: 7.2, only KAT had more
TS%: 58.4%, only KAT, Naz and Vando were better
ORtg: 114, again only KAT, Naz and Vando were better
Assist to Turnover ratio: 2.3 to 1, only Rubio and JMac were better

That's a lot of important offensive categories where Simmons would have led the Wolves or been in the top 4 last season. And it should be noted that in each of these 6 categories his stats were better than Dlo, Ant and Beasley...3 guys we're agonizing about maybe having to give up in exchange for the best defensive player in the league!

So yeah, if 3-point and free throw shooting are the only offensive stats that matter, Simmons would be considered "just for defense"...and so would Giannis. But I would guess most of us would say there's more to offense than just those two things.

Missing my point. He is Elite at defense. Very good at offense because of major holes. Also not sure he has the mindset needed to be a star. Having said that I'd love to have him on the team and think he would be an amazing add to the team. Just not willing to sell the farm (McDaniels, dlo, Beasley and 4 1sts) for him. Trying to make this board think a little. Way too much group think happening and way too much grass is greener. This is coming from someone who without hindsight would have drafted so many people you guys talk about that out inept leadership passed on

P.S. also coming from someone who reads posts on here and tends to value lips views like the rest of the folks on here. Had a good level head generally.

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I think DLO can be a key player on a winning team, but the problem is that all three of our top guys are sub-par defenders. That's why a Simmons-DLO swap kind of makes sense for both teams. The Sixers get a highly skilled shot maker that will create even more space for Embiid and the Wolves add a guy that can defend.

Yep, Q. I've always thought a DLO/Simmons swap would serve the interests of both teams. I never thought it was feasible before Morey overplayed his hand. But Morey has a flawed player on his hands who will hold out until he's traded. Morey has very little leverage. The Wolves would still have to give up more than DLO, but in my view, not a lot more. If I were Rosas, I'd offer DLO, Bolmaro, and their choice of Jaylen Nowell, Josh Okogie, or Jake Layman. I'd add two of our three 2022 2nd-round picks, our 2023 1st-round pick (unprotected) and maybe a 2024 1st-round pick swap.

Morey doesn't want DLO Lip. He's going to get a better player than that. It might not happen soon, but I don't think there's any question that someone will pony up for an all NBA player.

Cool - As you've seen from my posts, I tend to agree with you. I'm not sure someone will pony up an all-NBA guard, but I think some other teams will offer lead guards Morey would probably prefer over DLO -- lead guards like VanVleet, Brogdon or Sexton. Having said that, the DLO from the 2018-19 season with the Nets would be a great fit for the Sixers. So while I don't think Morey will end up taking a DLO package from the Wolves, i wouldn't be completely surprised if he did. DLO is a talented lead guard. His defensive rating wasn't terrible in his 2018-19 season and playing with Embiid, Harris and Thybulle would cover for a lot of his defensive deficiencies. I can certainly see the case for a Simmons/DLO swap - with the Wolves giving up some additional assets.

We should spend at least as much time talking about his non '18-'19 years, as we do that aberration. It would be great if we could all cherry pick our best year in order to gloss over all the not so good years.

And the team that benefitted from that '18-'19 year soon had no use for him. Kind of a recurring theme.