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Re: Next Moves for the Wolves
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:16 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
Three-Point Shooting: 2018-19 to 2019-20
D'Angelo Russell: 2.9 3PM - 7.9 3PA (36.6% 3P)
Mike Conley: 2.1 3PM - 5.9 3PA (36.6% 3P)
Kemba Walker: 3.3 3PM - 8.9 3PA (36.5% 3P)
Donovan Mitchell: 2.4 3PM - 6.6 3PA (36.2% 3P)
James Harden: 4.8 3PM - 13.3 3PA (36.1% 3P)
Josh Richardson: 2.2 3PM - 6.1 3PA (36.1% 3P)
Kyle Lowry: 2.5 3PM - 7.2 3PA (35.1% 3P)
All players listed above are very good three-point shooters. No one would dispute that because, well, it'd be silly to. Their production -- especially the volume -- speaks for itself.
There are legitimate weaknesses and concerns with Russell's game. Perimeter shooting is not one of them. Let's put that to bed right now.
Re: Next Moves for the Wolves
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:17 pm
by crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]
Opposing teams will just put dlo and kat in pnr defense every trip down the floor against us.
We had better get a a mobile 3 pt shooting rim protecting 4 next to kat.
Im also inching toward yes after watching teague run the offense and all our players bricking eide open 3s.
Re: Next Moves for the Wolves
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:24 pm
by kekgeek
CoolBreeze44 wrote:kekgeek1 wrote:Im really torn on the Dlo thing.
Pro:
-Would be by far our best shot creator
-Young and still can improve
-Proved last year can be the best player on a playoff team (Ala in the East)
-I would say one of the most important things is he is really good thing with KAT and with Kat getting frustrated it could be huge for him to have another great friend on the team.
- Are the Wolves more appealing to young players and what pull does Kat and Dlo crew have around the league to add more talented players. Like Jimmy was a complete ass, but he helped bring in Teague, Taj, Rose and had people like Irving wanting to play with the Wolves. Would the combo of Dlo and Kat have some type of pull around the league
- Super hard for the wolves to add young talent and Dlo is a young talent
- Hasn't even come close to playing with a player as talented as KAT, so does his game go up a notch if it is a Kat and Dlo PnR (Im not counting the 5ish games with Curry or Washed up Kobe)
- In this new system the wolves run a shit ton of PnR with drive and kick, Dlo is very good at that, one of the biggest problems with the wolves is outside of Wiggins other teams don't have to worry about a premiter player putting consistent pressure on the defense. Dlo can do that, now to what degree who knows.
Cons:
-Max Contract for not consistent Max Production
- Has been a negative net player in 4 of his 5 years (even though he was positive in his playoff year)
- Still thoughts of immaturity
- This is sort of the Wolves team going forward with making this deal
- What happens to Wiggins if he becomes 3rd fiddle, Im not saying we should make deals that concern Wiggins but that is what the Wolves need to ask themselves what is Wiggins and what is he when another ball dominate player comes on the team. Does he become an above average 3rd fiddle or does he become a massive net negative again that doesn't do anything again.
-Has been a poor defender in the NBA
Conclusion:
- It all matters what we have to give up. If it is Cov and Teague with no pick. I pull the trigger. And risk the upside of Dlo and Kat
- If it is Cov, Culver and Gorgui, I still probably pull the trigger.
If it is Gorgui, Teague and unprotected 1st, I pull the trigger.
If it is Cov, Teague and unprotected 1st, I pass
If it is Cov, Culver and Teague, I probably pass also but super close
If it is Teague, Culver and Okogie, I do it in a heart beat (don't think this is realistic)
*I want to put in a note, I also would love to see what Cov value is around the league. I listened to the Ringer NBA show with KOC and Vernon today and KOC thinks there is a chance that Cov might be the best player on the market during the Trade Deadline, He thinks Wolves could get a young player and multiple picks for Cov. The thing is how good is the young player and how late are those 1st both might be totally irrelevant.
This is the most torn I have been on a trade idea in a long time, I can see both sides, in the end I probably lean gamble on Dlo especially if we are giving up no picks. Super unlikely the wolves move up in the lottery so Wolves still taking shots at a dart board to get good if the Wolves don't make a trade.
Once again super torn on it.
The bold is the problem. It's just not good enough.
Fair point.
Just the conversation in my head. How do we get good enough. I think you would agree we are in that good non playoff team so we have super low probability of moving up in the draft to draft a stud.
Wolves won't have a ton of cap space as long as Wiggins and Kat are here. And wolves will never add a max caliber free agents. And wolves only add 3rd tier free agents. I mean by pedigree Teague was the wolves best ever signing.
I still think the youth moment can happen with Dlo. But idk, I think we are sort of screwed either way. Traditionally I'm more of a gambler. But I'm still torn on this one
Re: Next Moves for the Wolves
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:26 pm
by kekgeek
crazy-canuck wrote:Opposing teams will just put dlo and kat in pnr defense every trip down the floor against us.
We had better get a a mobile 3 pt shooting rim protecting 4 next to kat.
Im also inching toward yes after watching teague run the offense and all our players bricking eide open 3s.
Don't teams do that already. It's on Kat to improve there (what he has). I think PG defense is sort of overrated. There are very few if any above average 2 way PG
Re: Next Moves for the Wolves
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:35 pm
by Lipoli390
Kekgeek -
Excellent post on pros and cons of trading for DLO. There are too many cons for me to give up valuable assets and take on another max deal. Keep in mind that in his one net positive season, he was barely positive and, as Q noted, the Nets haven't missed a beat since his departure. If it's just Covington and Teague, then I might pull the trigger in spite of all the cons. But I wouldn't give up a future 1st, Culver, Okogie or even Nowell as part of any Russell deal. And I'd assume that any deal Golden State is willing to do with us is probably a bad deal for the Wolves because, until proven otherwise, I'm assuming their front office is smarter than ours.
When thinking about Covington's value, it's important to consider the opportunity costs of trading him now for Russell. Among other possibilities, he's the sort of asset that could help the Wolves move up in the draft on draft day. Or perhaps he could be combined with our pick next June to get a talented young player who fits perfectly on this team, but who we're not thinking about right now. Teams get very trade-happy on draft day and there tend to be more opportunities and options on and around the draft than at any time during the season. Russell will probably be available then as well if Rosas still wants him.
Finally, it's time we stopped thinking about draft picks as shots at a dart board even thought that's the way it's been for the Wolves throughout its franchise history. The draft is an exercise in preparation and good judgment. The top organizations make consistently good draft decisions even though they don't always hit the mark. And they don't always depend on top 5 or even top 10 picks to get elite players. Just look at what Bam, Herro and Robinson are doing in Miami. If the Rosas regime fails to make consistently good draft decisions, then this team will continue to struggle and KAT will leave. There is no silver bullet deal for a current proven player that will take this team from lottery to top 4 or 5 contender. It's about smart draft-day decisions and effective player development. Good coaching helps too.
Re: Next Moves for the Wolves
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:39 pm
by KG4Ever
Camden wrote:It's D'Angelo Russell time.
Just like it was Thibs time 3 years ago, you one-note Buffoon
Re: Next Moves for the Wolves
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:45 pm
by KG4Ever
Q12543 wrote:DLo's Net Rating through the years:
15-16: -11.7
16-17: -9.1
17-18: -7.2
18-19: +.2
19-10: -16.0
He seems a little LaVine-esque in that he has some sparkle with decent shooting/scoring/assisting numbers, yet his team is often better with him on the bench. In fact, Brooklyn hasn't really skipped a beat without him, and it's not because of Irving.
I agree that DLO is cut from the same mold as Zach Lavine. I'm not a big Zach Lavine fan, but I'd prefer him over DLO. He is making far less and doesn't have all the baggage of DLO.
Re: Next Moves for the Wolves
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:47 pm
by crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]
We definitely need to add talent, but a leader would do wonders for this team. Especially if kat or even wiggs were the one to step up. 1 of these 2 need to take ownership of this team.
I know kat wants to be that guy, but i dont think he is. Too many players get into his head and he goes through mood swings. Best player on the team, no question though.
Even if dlo comes on board, i think we might just see the same thing we see now. Except wed be capped out.
Re: Next Moves for the Wolves
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:49 pm
by Coolbreeze44
KG4Ever wrote:Camden wrote:It's D'Angelo Russell time.
Just like it was Thibs time 3 years ago, you one-note Buffoon
:(,
Re: Next Moves for the Wolves
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:54 pm
by Coolbreeze44
crazy-canuck wrote:We definitely need to add talent, but a leader would do wonders for this team. Especially if kat or even wiggs were the one to step up. 1 of these 2 need to take ownership of this team.
I know kat wants to be that guy, but i dont think he is. Too many players get into his head and he goes through mood swings. Best player on the team, no question though.
Even if dlo comes on board, i think we might just see the same thing we see now. Except wed be capped out.
Good post Crazy. An on-court leader is sorely missing. Wig is too quiet and passive. KAT isn't mature enough, at least not yet. Too many mini tantrums seemingly every game. Adding a petulant child like DLO sure isn't going to help in the leadership department. We need a Chauncey Billups type and they are hard to find. But your point is spot on.