Duke13 wrote:Q, I really like what you said about our shooting woes and having the shooting improved organically. I've tried to say that I'm past posts, but you explained it well. Lavine and KAT project as elite shooters, Wig is improving. We could definitely use a shooter or two off the bench or a potential small ball PF who can shoot. Envision a lineup with Dunn, Lavine, Wig and KAT. I think that lineup could potentially replicate a lot of the same mismatch problems Golden States "death" lineup presents.
Well, you come at Dunn from an angle of not being satisfied with Rubio whereas I come at Dunn as a guy that has excellent defensive potential and the ability to play a couple of different positions due to his size and athleticism. If he were to eventually challenge Rubio as a starting PG, so be it, but that's not my angle.
I personally think a lot of these guys in the lottery are highly flawed players, including Dunn. He's a turnover machine and I'm not sure his outside shot can be trusted. But the things that most reliably transfer to the pros - rebounding, assisting, and steals (the very things Rubio excels at by the way)- he does very well. And I don't think we need him to be a high-usage offensive player, so there may be some value with him playing a Marcus Smart junk-yard-dog off the bench sort of role paired with Jones, Rubio, or LaVine.
BPA is an interesting topic. To some it means you have players ranked 1 through whatever, and the highest ranked player available when you draft is who you take.
Flip had a different approach, and one I endorse. He had Best Box Available (BBA). His boxes were "potential hall-of-famer", "potential all-star", "potential starter", etc. And so he ranked players by putting them in those boxes. When it was time to select a player Flip would simply go to his highest ranking box that still had somebody in it. Once there, "fit" was absolutely a criteria he used in selecting a player from that box.
Of course, we do not know what Thibs' or Layden's philosophy will be...
Duke13 wrote:Q, I really like what you said about our shooting woes and having the shooting improved organically. I've tried to say that I'm past posts, but you explained it well. Lavine and KAT project as elite shooters, Wig is improving. We could definitely use a shooter or two off the bench or a potential small ball PF who can shoot. Envision a lineup with Dunn, Lavine, Wig and KAT. I think that lineup could potentially replicate a lot of the same mismatch problems Golden States "death" lineup presents.
Well, you come at Dunn from an angle of not being satisfied with Rubio whereas I come at Dunn as a guy that has excellent defensive potential and the ability to play a couple of different positions due to his size and athleticism. If he were to eventually challenge Rubio as a starting PG, so be it, but that's not my angle.
I personally think a lot of these guys in the lottery are highly flawed players, including Dunn. He's a turnover machine and I'm not sure his outside shot can be trusted. But the things that most reliably transfer to the pros - rebounding, assisting, and steals (the very things Rubio excels at by the way)- he does very well. And I don't think we need him to be a high-usage offensive player, so there may be some value with him playing a Marcus Smart junk-yard-dog off the bench sort of role paired with Jones, Rubio, or LaVine.
Why did you have to bring up Marcus Smart again? Lol I think he is a big reason why I am not sold on Dunn. The crazy thing is they are basically the same age right now as they both turned 22 in March. Would anyone give up a top 10 pick to get Smart? I know this isn't a perfect comp (for one thing Smart hasn't taken off yet but he is still 22) as Dunn is arguably a better shooter but I think their strong points are very similar. I remember Smart being even more of a beast physically in some ways than Dunn but that was a while ago and I am pretty sure I saw Smart play more than Dunn and he was 2 younger his last year in college. I remember likely Smart but wasn't convinced he would be able to really make it at the next level.
Duke13 wrote:Q, I really like what you said about our shooting woes and having the shooting improved organically. I've tried to say that I'm past posts, but you explained it well. Lavine and KAT project as elite shooters, Wig is improving. We could definitely use a shooter or two off the bench or a potential small ball PF who can shoot. Envision a lineup with Dunn, Lavine, Wig and KAT. I think that lineup could potentially replicate a lot of the same mismatch problems Golden States "death" lineup presents.
Well, you come at Dunn from an angle of not being satisfied with Rubio whereas I come at Dunn as a guy that has excellent defensive potential and the ability to play a couple of different positions due to his size and athleticism. If he were to eventually challenge Rubio as a starting PG, so be it, but that's not my angle.
I personally think a lot of these guys in the lottery are highly flawed players, including Dunn. He's a turnover machine and I'm not sure his outside shot can be trusted. But the things that most reliably transfer to the pros - rebounding, assisting, and steals (the very things Rubio excels at by the way)- he does very well. And I don't think we need him to be a high-usage offensive player, so there may be some value with him playing a Marcus Smart junk-yard-dog off the bench sort of role paired with Jones, Rubio, or LaVine.
Why did you have to bring up Marcus Smart again? Lol I think he is a big reason why I am not sold on Dunn. The crazy thing is they are basically the same age right now as they both turned 22 in March. Would anyone give up a top 10 pick to get Smart? I know this isn't a perfect comp (for one thing Smart hasn't taken off yet but he is still 22) as Dunn is arguably a better shooter but I think their strong points are very similar. I remember Smart being even more of a beast physically in some ways than Dunn but that was a while ago and I am pretty sure I saw Smart play more than Dunn and he was 2 younger his last year in college. I remember likely Smart but wasn't convinced he would be able to really make it at the next level.
Yeah, I'm not really sold on anyone, as like I said, I'm probably more enamored with some of the guys lower in the draft than I am higher up. It just feels like a big blob of players not that far removed from each other between #3 all the way down to 17 or 18.
Heck, someone here could probably sell me on drafting Deyonta Davis at #5 given his physical profile, potential upside, and our team needs.
But if I HAD to make the pick today, I'd probably go with Dunn for the reasons I stated earlier.
In watching some highlights of Ellenson, he certainly shows the makings of a solid offensive PF. He can handle the ball exceptionally well, and is great at managing post moves with both hands around the basket. Exceptional skill level. Like most guys coming out, his defense is suspect. But then again, that is more the norm. I like him in that 5-10 range. Would be a guy I would trade down to target.
Duke13 wrote:Q, I really like what you said about our shooting woes and having the shooting improved organically. I've tried to say that I'm past posts, but you explained it well. Lavine and KAT project as elite shooters, Wig is improving. We could definitely use a shooter or two off the bench or a potential small ball PF who can shoot. Envision a lineup with Dunn, Lavine, Wig and KAT. I think that lineup could potentially replicate a lot of the same mismatch problems Golden States "death" lineup presents.
Well, you come at Dunn from an angle of not being satisfied with Rubio whereas I come at Dunn as a guy that has excellent defensive potential and the ability to play a couple of different positions due to his size and athleticism. If he were to eventually challenge Rubio as a starting PG, so be it, but that's not my angle.
I personally think a lot of these guys in the lottery are highly flawed players, including Dunn. He's a turnover machine and I'm not sure his outside shot can be trusted. But the things that most reliably transfer to the pros - rebounding, assisting, and steals (the very things Rubio excels at by the way)- he does very well. And I don't think we need him to be a high-usage offensive player, so there may be some value with him playing a Marcus Smart junk-yard-dog off the bench sort of role paired with Jones, Rubio, or LaVine.
Why did you have to bring up Marcus Smart again? Lol I think he is a big reason why I am not sold on Dunn. The crazy thing is they are basically the same age right now as they both turned 22 in March. Would anyone give up a top 10 pick to get Smart? I know this isn't a perfect comp (for one thing Smart hasn't taken off yet but he is still 22) as Dunn is arguably a better shooter but I think their strong points are very similar. I remember Smart being even more of a beast physically in some ways than Dunn but that was a while ago and I am pretty sure I saw Smart play more than Dunn and he was 2 younger his last year in college. I remember likely Smart but wasn't convinced he would be able to really make it at the next level.
Yeah, I'm not really sold on anyone, as like I said, I'm probably more enamored with some of the guys lower in the draft than I am higher up. It just feels like a big blob of players not that far removed from each other between #3 all the way down to 17 or 18.
Heck, someone here could probably sell me on drafting Deyonta Davis at #5 given his physical profile, potential upside, and our team needs.
But if I HAD to make the pick today, I'd probably go with Dunn for the reasons I stated earlier.
It's interesting there is this hype about teams really wanting Dunn. I sorta get it but I don't. I can only hope it means:
It drops a more talented player to the Wolves
Or means the Wolves can get a sweet deal done for a team wanting to move up to get Dunn.
It's still early enough in the process to get too excited worked up being at 5 in what may be categorized as the blob draft. Tim, Flip may have needed to go down to the local Appliance store to get a box or two for this draft. Lol
That's true I'm not a Rubio guy like most on the board but I wouldnt advocate for picking Dunn just because of that. I don't think there is much comparison with Dunn's offensive potential compared to Rubio's. He has the ability to beat his man off the dribble and score at the rim. Something Rubio is historically bad at. And his shot is much improved, his form is very good, so I don't see much comparison there either. I promise I'll try and not make this into a Rubio bashing rant, it's more I really like Dunn's potential. Look at the four PG's left in the playoffs, all 4 are their teams 1-2 offensive option.
Duke13 wrote:That's true I'm not a Rubio guy like most on the board but I wouldnt advocate for picking Dunn just because of that. I don't think there is much comparison with Dunn's offensive potential compared to Rubio's. He has the ability to beat his man off the dribble and score at the rim. Something Rubio is historically bad at. And his shot is much improved, his form is very good, so I don't see much comparison there either. I promise I'll try and not make this into a Rubio bashing rant, it's more I really like Dunn's potential. Look at the four PG's left in the playoffs, all 4 are their teams 1-2 offensive option.
I'm not a believer that there is any major positional or functional formula to success in the NBA (other than being good at both offense and defense - duh!). Obviously the 3-point shot - and defending it - have increased in importance, but otherwise, I don't buy that you need your PG to be a top 2 or 3 offensive option. Here are examples:
Some of those squads won multiple titles too. In fact, the teams closest to being dynasties over the past few decades were more likely, not less likely, to have the PG as more of a role player and table setter than one of the key go-to guys.
Duke13 wrote:That's true I'm not a Rubio guy like most on the board but I wouldnt advocate for picking Dunn just because of that. I don't think there is much comparison with Dunn's offensive potential compared to Rubio's. He has the ability to beat his man off the dribble and score at the rim. Something Rubio is historically bad at. And his shot is much improved, his form is very good, so I don't see much comparison there either. I promise I'll try and not make this into a Rubio bashing rant, it's more I really like Dunn's potential. Look at the four PG's left in the playoffs, all 4 are their teams 1-2 offensive option.
I'm not a believer that there is any major positional or functional formula to success in the NBA (other than being good at both offense and defense - duh!). Obviously the 3-point shot - and defending it - have increased in importance, but otherwise, I don't buy that you need your PG to be a top 2 or 3 offensive option. Here are examples:
Some of those squads won multiple titles too. In fact, the teams closest to being dynasties over the past few decades were more likely, not less likely, to have the PG as more of a role player and table setter than one of the key go-to guys.
That's true...
But look at what most of those teams did have. The Heat, Lakers, Bulls and Celtics had all-world playmakers at other positions. Those guys were PGs on the defensive end... they weren't the primary creator on offense.
Only Dallas and Houston break the norm. (and Houston had Drexler one of those seasons... and no Jordan in the L both seasons.)
Definitely good arguments and examples but the game is so different now than it was in the 80's, 90's, 2000's. It's all about spreading the defense out with the threat the 3 pt shot and the ability to drive and kick.
