Minnesota Sports Forum

2Pat, whoever came up with that nickname deserves some kind of reward. Brilliant!

I think Thibs wasn't just going for on the floor performance and skill when he went for Taj. I think he was wanting to add grit to his team and a smart veteran leader. The one thing hard for us fans to see is the small behind the scene things certain players do that makes the entire team better. It would have been nicer if Gibson were younger and could stretch the defenses better, but I believe that he brings a personality that Thibs felt was missing behind the scenes. Total speculation on my part.

Q12543 wrote:Now I'm really starting to get pissed about the Taj deal.

So if Thibs had just kept his powder dry after the Rubio and Teague deals (I get it - he was never going to embrace Ricky), he could have patiently waited for opportunities just like the one Boston is presenting now.

Think about it. With a bit more patience, we could have eventually landed Patrick Patterson and Jae Crowder for the same price we paid for Taj Gibson. Chew on that for a bit.....

Why are you pisses at Taj? Why aren't we pissed at Glen for not willing to get the players to move above the cap into hard cap region? Milo at 6 a year is solid! Clippers jumped in at 116mil guaranteed pay with only 11 guaranteed contracts. Balmer and Jerry West are willing to dish out to get a team still...and still a couple mill under the 119 tuxury tax level.

Also. For those who say Taj is past his prime are ridiculous. Guy didn't get starter minutes until the last 3 years. Dude gives us hustle, grit and balls. He doesn't have high use minutes.

TRKO wrote:I think Thibs wasn't just going for on the floor performance and skill when he went for Taj. I think he was wanting to add grit to his team and a smart veteran leader. The one thing hard for us fans to see is the small behind the scene things certain players do that makes the entire team better. It would have been nicer if Gibson were younger and could stretch the defenses better, but I believe that he brings a personality that Thibs felt was missing behind the scenes. Total speculation on my part.

I agree, that's certainly his working theory here. Still tough to swallow. The Taj signing's success in my opinion (along with Butler of course) is judged in direct proportion to our improvement in one simple metric: Opponent eFG%.

If you were to boil down our problems into the lowest level causal factor possible, it's that one: How efficiently teams make baskets against us, inclusive of the value of 3-point shots. Here is our rank in that metric for the past three seasons:

2014-15: 30th
2015-16: 29th
2016-17: 29th

All this talk of defense by Flip, then Mitchell, then Thibs. All the chatter by the players about playing defense. All the so called mentoring by KG and Prince. It's led to basically zero improvement in what is by far the most important defensive attribute of a team: Preventing made baskets.

If Butler and Taj can help move us to league average or better in that metric, I'm sold. His contract is worth every damn penny.

lipoli390 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:I don't mind missing out on Patrick Patterson at all, I lost interest after watching him completely shit the bed for the 2nd consecutive postseason. What use is a stretch 4 that can't hit a shot when the playoffs roll around? In my opinion Taj isn't overpaid and Patrick just got his market value after wilting again. Crowder wouldn't have been a simple absorb either, whoever gets him will have to give up some kind of asset.

I see your point, Bloop. But I do think Taj is overpaid in this market. More importantly, I don't think it was a prudent expenditure by the Wolves under the circumstances. I'd prefer to be in a position where we could deal our OKC pick for Crowder, Avery Bradley or even Marcus Smart and still have around $8 million left over to sign another high quality FA, not necessarily Patterson.

Don't get me wrong, I like Taj. I just don't like the we gave him under the circumstances. At this point, I hope we keep the OKC pick and use the RE and vet minimums to get the best bench possible. No doubt Taj makes us a better team.

Honestly I am pretty salty that we can't go after avery bradley now, he would have been such a great addition for us

slimcalhoun27 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Now I'm really starting to get pissed about the Taj deal.

So if Thibs had just kept his powder dry after the Rubio and Teague deals (I get it - he was never going to embrace Ricky), he could have patiently waited for opportunities just like the one Boston is presenting now.

Think about it. With a bit more patience, we could have eventually landed Patrick Patterson and Jae Crowder for the same price we paid for Taj Gibson. Chew on that for a bit.....

Why are you pisses at Taj? Why aren't we pissed at Glen for not willing to get the players to move above the cap into hard cap region? Milo at 6 a year is solid! Clippers jumped in at 116mil guaranteed pay with only 11 guaranteed contracts. Balmer and Jerry West are willing to dish out to get a team still...and still a couple mill under the 119 tuxury tax level.

Also. For those who say Taj is past his prime are ridiculous. Guy didn't get starter minutes until the last 3 years. Dude gives us hustle, grit and balls. He doesn't have high use minutes.

I have nothing against Taj and think he's a solid player. Hell, I was advocating him as a potential offseason signing months ago. I just think given the circumstances we found ourselves in and the existing market dynamics, we overpaid for his services and lost an opportunity to make our team even better. We'll see if TRKO's (and Thibs') theory hold up - that somehow his impact on the team culture is greater than the somewhat pedestrian individual production he puts out.

BloopOracle wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:I don't mind missing out on Patrick Patterson at all, I lost interest after watching him completely shit the bed for the 2nd consecutive postseason. What use is a stretch 4 that can't hit a shot when the playoffs roll around? In my opinion Taj isn't overpaid and Patrick just got his market value after wilting again. Crowder wouldn't have been a simple absorb either, whoever gets him will have to give up some kind of asset.

I see your point, Bloop. But I do think Taj is overpaid in this market. More importantly, I don't think it was a prudent expenditure by the Wolves under the circumstances. I'd prefer to be in a position where we could deal our OKC pick for Crowder, Avery Bradley or even Marcus Smart and still have around $8 million left over to sign another high quality FA, not necessarily Patterson.

Don't get me wrong, I like Taj. I just don't like the we gave him under the circumstances. At this point, I hope we keep the OKC pick and use the RE and vet minimums to get the best bench possible. No doubt Taj makes us a better team.

Honestly I am pretty salty that we can't go after avery bradley now, he would have been such a great addition for us

And for 29 other teams...

Boston is going to get legit assets in return... if they even move him. I think they're floating all three to see which one garners the most return. Bradley, Smart and Crowder all have legit value, in different ways.

Q12543 wrote:

TRKO wrote:I think Thibs wasn't just going for on the floor performance and skill when he went for Taj. I think he was wanting to add grit to his team and a smart veteran leader. The one thing hard for us fans to see is the small behind the scene things certain players do that makes the entire team better. It would have been nicer if Gibson were younger and could stretch the defenses better, but I believe that he brings a personality that Thibs felt was missing behind the scenes. Total speculation on my part.

I agree, that's certainly his working theory here. Still tough to swallow. The Taj signing's success in my opinion (along with Butler of course) is judged in direct proportion to our improvement in one simple metric: Opponent eFG%.

If you were to boil down our problems into the lowest level causal factor possible, it's that one: How efficiently teams make baskets against us, inclusive of the value of 3-point shots. Here is our rank in that metric for the past three seasons:

2014-15: 30th
2015-16: 29th
2016-17: 29th

All this talk of defense by Flip, then Mitchell, then Thibs. All the chatter by the players about playing defense. All the so called mentoring by KG and Prince. It's led to basically zero improvement in what is by far the most important defensive attribute of a team: Preventing made baskets.

If Butler and Taj can help move us to league average or better in that metric, I'm sold. His contract is worth every damn penny.

The thing with Garnett and Prince vs Butler and Taj is Garnett and Prince were washed up. They showed flashes, but they couldn't contribute consistently at a high level. Butler can and I believe Taj can be good for 2 years. I understand the angst, but if the defense improves and that grit rubs off on Towns and Wiggins, then it will be worth it.

To me Thibs went out and added 3 guys who have consistently been in the playoffs and all three have made it to the conference finals playing key roles on their team. That experience paired with the vast future potential of Towns and Wiggins could/should produce great things now, and down the road.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:I don't mind missing out on Patrick Patterson at all, I lost interest after watching him completely shit the bed for the 2nd consecutive postseason. What use is a stretch 4 that can't hit a shot when the playoffs roll around? In my opinion Taj isn't overpaid and Patrick just got his market value after wilting again. Crowder wouldn't have been a simple absorb either, whoever gets him will have to give up some kind of asset.

I see your point, Bloop. But I do think Taj is overpaid in this market. More importantly, I don't think it was a prudent expenditure by the Wolves under the circumstances. I'd prefer to be in a position where we could deal our OKC pick for Crowder, Avery Bradley or even Marcus Smart and still have around $8 million left over to sign another high quality FA, not necessarily Patterson.

Don't get me wrong, I like Taj. I just don't like the we gave him under the circumstances. At this point, I hope we keep the OKC pick and use the RE and vet minimums to get the best bench possible. No doubt Taj makes us a better team.

Honestly I am pretty salty that we can't go after avery bradley now, he would have been such a great addition for us

And for 29 other teams...

Boston is going to get legit assets in return... if they even move him. I think they're floating all three to see which one garners the most return. Bradley, Smart and Crowder all have legit value, in different ways.

Exactly. Every contending team and teams on the bubble would love to have Bradley, Crowder, and Smart. There will be legit assets in return. They won't be salary dumps.

Q12543 wrote:

slimcalhoun27 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Now I'm really starting to get pissed about the Taj deal.

So if Thibs had just kept his powder dry after the Rubio and Teague deals (I get it - he was never going to embrace Ricky), he could have patiently waited for opportunities just like the one Boston is presenting now.

Think about it. With a bit more patience, we could have eventually landed Patrick Patterson and Jae Crowder for the same price we paid for Taj Gibson. Chew on that for a bit.....

Why are you pisses at Taj? Why aren't we pissed at Glen for not willing to get the players to move above the cap into hard cap region? Milo at 6 a year is solid! Clippers jumped in at 116mil guaranteed pay with only 11 guaranteed contracts. Balmer and Jerry West are willing to dish out to get a team still...and still a couple mill under the 119 tuxury tax level.

Also. For those who say Taj is past his prime are ridiculous. Guy didn't get starter minutes until the last 3 years. Dude gives us hustle, grit and balls. He doesn't have high use minutes.

I have nothing against Taj and think he's a solid player. Hell, I was advocating him as a potential offseason signing months ago. I just think given the circumstances we found ourselves in and the existing market dynamics, we overpaid for his services and lost an opportunity to make our team even better. We'll see if TRKO's (and Thibs') theory hold up - that somehow his impact on the team culture is greater than the somewhat pedestrian individual production he puts out.

I understand, but how do we know we can secure any of the future Free Agent options if we didn't get Taj? In hindsight this may be overpaying, stings a bit since it seems like we blew our load....but we are not a championship team (Cavs, GS, Hou, Celts) plus not offering these mid Tier guys opportunities for starter minutes.

Until we see the dynamic of Thibs new team with players he brought in specifically cause he trusts them and they own the system. Plus, give us swagger and toughness.

I enjoy reading and not posting, but the bulls#1t whining and complaining about how Thibs is conducting his offseason and spending is stupid. Some on here more then others, and frankly...it's a nasty starting 5 with Tyus, Dieng and Belly coming off the bench so far. I like it.

We have zero insight on negotiations. Taj to me doesn't seem to be a negative for players to say they don't want to come. To me it's Glen and how much we can offer.