Draft prospects - Who do we want?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Other than Winslow being black and left-handed, the Harden comparison makes zero sense. Some tried to do that with Muhammad too.

That's just ignorant. He goes to the bucket relentlessly and draws contact quite often. There is a comparison beyond being black and left handed.

It's nothing against Winslow, but Harden is a poor comparison for him. Believe what you want to.

PS: Harden, Duncan, Wade, etc. These comparisons get made every year. Pump the brakes. Most of the time the play styles are different, and that's the case with Winslow.

That's all well and good, but you used some very lofty comparisons with Towns.

I compared him to LaMarcus Aldridge with better defense? Towns is in a completely different tier than Winslow.

PS: Harden's my MVP this year so maybe I'm taking his value for more than what you guys are. Winslow's not a "carry your team" guy. He's a really nice second fiddle that could help you win your ring, though.

I've got Harden as my MVP choice right now. Harden was a nice "2nd fiddle" when he was coming out too. In fact, he was 3rd fiddle with the Thunder, and ultimately the Thunder picked Durant, Westbrook, AND Ibaka over him. Harden was a "nice" player with the Thunder, but he broke out when he had the opportunity to take over a team of his own (in addition to his improvement all around).

Harden was no second fiddle at Arizona State. That is for damn sure.

And the Thunder did pick Ibaka over Harden for monetary reasons, and guess how that looks for them now? Real stupid. Not sure why this was a point of yours, though. We're talking college basketball and you jumped to the NBA.

Winslow's more Shawn Marion to me than he is James Harden, and I don't even like that comparison.

[mrhockey89]

That's why we're all allowed to have different draft boards.

And that goes with the NBA as well... Darko was drafted over Melo, Bosh, and Wade.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Other than Winslow being black and left-handed, the Harden comparison makes zero sense. Some tried to do that with Muhammad too.

That's just ignorant. He goes to the bucket relentlessly and draws contact quite often. There is a comparison beyond being black and left handed.

It's nothing against Winslow, but Harden is a poor comparison for him. Believe what you want to.

PS: Harden, Duncan, Wade, etc. These comparisons get made every year. Pump the brakes. Most of the time the play styles are different, and that's the case with Winslow.

That's all well and good, but you used some very lofty comparisons with Towns.

I compared him to LaMarcus Aldridge with better defense? Towns is in a completely different tier than Winslow.

PS: Harden's my MVP this year so maybe I'm taking his value for more than what you guys are. Winslow's not a "carry your team" guy. He's a really nice second fiddle that could help you win your ring, though.

Winslow has carried his team to two victories in the tournament when they needed someone to step up. You're just making shit up at this point because you don't think he is that good.

Okay, and for the large majority of the season, Okafor and Jones have been Duke's best players. For someone that likes to bitch at me about sample size, you sure are straying from your principles here khans.

And for the record, I do think Winslow's good. He's No. 7 on my board. That's nothing to scoff at and I've never once said he wasn't worthy of a high pick. I DO think he's being overhyped when you begin to discuss whether or not he's a top-four guy like some have on here, though.

And a lot of us think you've overhyped Towns and Johnson. Towns is like LA. Really? There's literally no face up aspect to Towns' game right now which is LA's bread and butter. Towns' comp for me right now is the good version of Bynum. Their offensive games look very similar.

And Winslow to Marion? Are you blind? They don't play alike at all. Marion's game is/was jumpers, floaters and offensive rebound putbacks. Winslow is the opposite. He gets to the basket and gets layups. I don't know how you can watch Harden drive to the hole and Winslow drive to the hole and not see any similarities.

[TheGrey08]

Yeah, these tiers are a pretty good depiction of my thoughts too, although I still have a lot of hope (based on the percentages) we will land someone in Tier 1. I had a big crush on Johnson most of the year, but I have moved away from him.

I showed in the TOM thread that the single most probably outcome (about 33% chance) is that we draft 4th, which likely moves us into that third tier of Mudiay, Hezonja, and Winslow. In that case, I would hope that Flip would pursue all opportunities to trade down.

The exact opposite IMO. He needs to pursue trading up if one of the 2 bigs is available, especially Towns.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Lol yeah, I overhyped Towns so much. Phil Jackson must be blind too because according to reports, that's his top guy. If anything, I accurately hyped him. Give me a fucking break.

[mrhockey89]

Other than Winslow being black and left-handed, the Harden comparison makes zero sense. Some tried to do that with Muhammad too.

That's just ignorant. He goes to the bucket relentlessly and draws contact quite often. There is a comparison beyond being black and left handed.

It's nothing against Winslow, but Harden is a poor comparison for him. Believe what you want to.

PS: Harden, Duncan, Wade, etc. These comparisons get made every year. Pump the brakes. Most of the time the play styles are different, and that's the case with Winslow.

That's all well and good, but you used some very lofty comparisons with Towns.

I compared him to LaMarcus Aldridge with better defense? Towns is in a completely different tier than Winslow.

PS: Harden's my MVP this year so maybe I'm taking his value for more than what you guys are. Winslow's not a "carry your team" guy. He's a really nice second fiddle that could help you win your ring, though.

I've got Harden as my MVP choice right now. Harden was a nice "2nd fiddle" when he was coming out too. In fact, he was 3rd fiddle with the Thunder, and ultimately the Thunder picked Durant, Westbrook, AND Ibaka over him. Harden was a "nice" player with the Thunder, but he broke out when he had the opportunity to take over a team of his own (in addition to his improvement all around).

Harden was no second fiddle at Arizona State. That is for damn sure.

And the Thunder did pick Ibaka over Harden for monetary reasons, and guess how that looks for them now? Real stupid. Not sure why this was a point of yours, though. We're talking college basketball and you jumped to the NBA.

Winslow's more Shawn Marion to me than he is James Harden, and I don't even like that comparison.

Harden also didn't have the preseason slated #1 overall pick and many others to share with, nor did he make the NCAA Finals, and he didn't come out as a freshman either.

I completely disagree that the Thunder picked Ibaka over Harden for financial reasons. This was a big debate at the time as to which they should keep, because it was "one or the other" and not both simply because they couldn't go deep into the luxury by keeping both like a team like the Lakers/Nets could/would. If the Thunder thought Harden would become as good as he has, they would have kept him, plain and simple. With the Thunder, he represented a stellar 6th man who was also a great closer. But he was a guy that needed the ball, and they already had 2 other scorers, while Ibaka was able to protect their rim and be their defensive stopper.

The reason I brought this up is because you're talking about Harden right now as if he was anything close to what he is when he was coming out of college. Tyreke Evans won ROY, Blake Griffin was supposed to be the class of the draft, Rubio was supposed to be the guy who could change everything with his crazy passing and court vision, Thabeet was ultra skinny but had a ton of height/length and was a shot blocking dynamo at UConn. Harden was supposed to be the old school guard who was going to bring his lunch pail and be a good player, but was never supposed to be a MVP candidate.

So...what I'm suggesting is that I see a ton of similarities in their size and their styles of play. You're trying to compare a freshman college Justise Winslow to a NBA League MVP candidate playing his best season as a pro. To me that's like someone saying Wiggins looks like he could be a young Paul George only to have someone else shoot that down saying that Paul George is an established All-Star who has taken his team deep into the NBA playoffs and therefore it's a terrible comparison.

[mrhockey89]

Lol yeah, I overhyped Towns so much. Phil Jackson must be blind too because according to reports, that's his top guy. If anything, I accurately hyped him. Give me a fucking break.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure that what Phil said was that he plans on getting players who can play defense in FA and the draft, which in-turn people are translating that into suggesting he wants Towns... It's entirely possible Phil would be interested in trading down from #1 if he landed it to land a solid piece along with the #4 pick, where he would pick Cauley-Stein, then try to add another stud in free agency (as it's likely that Cauley-Stein will probably translate what he does now to the NBA faster than Towns will). To be clear, I'm not suggesting this is what Phil is thinking, but I think it's all speculation right now based on what Phil actually said.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Lol yeah, I overhyped Towns so much. Phil Jackson must be blind too because according to reports, that's his top guy. If anything, I accurately hyped him. Give me a fucking break.

Has Jackson said he's going to be the next big star in the league or does he just have him #1 on his board? He has a team that can't play defense and has an elite scorer so wouldn't it make sense he has the better defensive and rebounding center as his top guy rather than the elite scoring big?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

That's not what I'm saying at all, but you can continue to make the comparison as you see fit without me posting anything. I might even take a good break from the forum entirely.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

That's not what I'm saying at all, but you can continue to make the comparison as you see fit without me posting anything. I might even take a good break from the forum entirely.

You've literally posted everything there is to post about Towns. You've described him at times in a way that doesn't show any weaknesses (post game, mid-range game, free throws, defense, rebounding, high level of athleticism). You've done everything short of saying he's going to be the next big thing in the game. Don't give me that you not posting anything bullshit. You fucking dug deep and found out he skipped his junior year in high school like that makes a damn difference in his development and should be another reason to boost his draft stock as he theoretically has more room to grow than the guys who are actually younger than him. You are the fucking bandwagon driver for him. Stop acting like a martyr.