Minnesota Sports Forum

TRKO wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:I don't mind missing out on Patrick Patterson at all, I lost interest after watching him completely shit the bed for the 2nd consecutive postseason. What use is a stretch 4 that can't hit a shot when the playoffs roll around? In my opinion Taj isn't overpaid and Patrick just got his market value after wilting again. Crowder wouldn't have been a simple absorb either, whoever gets him will have to give up some kind of asset.

I see your point, Bloop. But I do think Taj is overpaid in this market. More importantly, I don't think it was a prudent expenditure by the Wolves under the circumstances. I'd prefer to be in a position where we could deal our OKC pick for Crowder, Avery Bradley or even Marcus Smart and still have around $8 million left over to sign another high quality FA, not necessarily Patterson.

Don't get me wrong, I like Taj. I just don't like the we gave him under the circumstances. At this point, I hope we keep the OKC pick and use the RE and vet minimums to get the best bench possible. No doubt Taj makes us a better team.

Honestly I am pretty salty that we can't go after avery bradley now, he would have been such a great addition for us

And for 29 other teams...

Boston is going to get legit assets in return... if they even move him. I think they're floating all three to see which one garners the most return. Bradley, Smart and Crowder all have legit value, in different ways.

Exactly. Every contending team and teams on the bubble would love to have Bradley, Crowder, and Smart. There will be legit assets in return. They won't be salary dumps.

True but Crowder is the only one of the 3 under contract past next season, interested to see what Utah gives up for him in the sign and trade

edit:whoops I guess Smart still has 2 years left on his deal it's just Bradley

slimcalhoun27 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Now I'm really starting to get pissed about the Taj deal.

So if Thibs had just kept his powder dry after the Rubio and Teague deals (I get it - he was never going to embrace Ricky), he could have patiently waited for opportunities just like the one Boston is presenting now.

Think about it. With a bit more patience, we could have eventually landed Patrick Patterson and Jae Crowder for the same price we paid for Taj Gibson. Chew on that for a bit.....

Why are you pisses at Taj? Why aren't we pissed at Glen for not willing to get the players to move above the cap into hard cap region? Milo at 6 a year is solid! Clippers jumped in at 116mil guaranteed pay with only 11 guaranteed contracts. Balmer and Jerry West are willing to dish out to get a team still...and still a couple mill under the 119 tuxury tax level.

Also. For those who say Taj is past his prime are ridiculous. Guy didn't get starter minutes until the last 3 years. Dude gives us hustle, grit and balls. He doesn't have high use minutes.

I'm assuming you are joking about the Clippers. They are gonna be decent but plenty expensive to do so. It will be exciting to see Milo here (that is a good deal) and see what all he can do and then Beverly backing him up. Did you see Beverly said that Milo was his hotel Alias and would have to come up with another one? Lol Awesome

I agree with you about Gibson. The way some people talk about him you would think he was 37.

BloopOracle wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:I don't mind missing out on Patrick Patterson at all, I lost interest after watching him completely shit the bed for the 2nd consecutive postseason. What use is a stretch 4 that can't hit a shot when the playoffs roll around? In my opinion Taj isn't overpaid and Patrick just got his market value after wilting again. Crowder wouldn't have been a simple absorb either, whoever gets him will have to give up some kind of asset.

I see your point, Bloop. But I do think Taj is overpaid in this market. More importantly, I don't think it was a prudent expenditure by the Wolves under the circumstances. I'd prefer to be in a position where we could deal our OKC pick for Crowder, Avery Bradley or even Marcus Smart and still have around $8 million left over to sign another high quality FA, not necessarily Patterson.

Don't get me wrong, I like Taj. I just don't like the we gave him under the circumstances. At this point, I hope we keep the OKC pick and use the RE and vet minimums to get the best bench possible. No doubt Taj makes us a better team.

Honestly I am pretty salty that we can't go after avery bradley now, he would have been such a great addition for us

I agree, Bloop. Bradley would be a great fit here.

slimcalhoun27 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

slimcalhoun27 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Now I'm really starting to get pissed about the Taj deal.

So if Thibs had just kept his powder dry after the Rubio and Teague deals (I get it - he was never going to embrace Ricky), he could have patiently waited for opportunities just like the one Boston is presenting now.

Think about it. With a bit more patience, we could have eventually landed Patrick Patterson and Jae Crowder for the same price we paid for Taj Gibson. Chew on that for a bit.....

Why are you pisses at Taj? Why aren't we pissed at Glen for not willing to get the players to move above the cap into hard cap region? Milo at 6 a year is solid! Clippers jumped in at 116mil guaranteed pay with only 11 guaranteed contracts. Balmer and Jerry West are willing to dish out to get a team still...and still a couple mill under the 119 tuxury tax level.

Also. For those who say Taj is past his prime are ridiculous. Guy didn't get starter minutes until the last 3 years. Dude gives us hustle, grit and balls. He doesn't have high use minutes.

I have nothing against Taj and think he's a solid player. Hell, I was advocating him as a potential offseason signing months ago. I just think given the circumstances we found ourselves in and the existing market dynamics, we overpaid for his services and lost an opportunity to make our team even better. We'll see if TRKO's (and Thibs') theory hold up - that somehow his impact on the team culture is greater than the somewhat pedestrian individual production he puts out.

I understand, but how do we know we can secure any of the future Free Agent options if we didn't get Taj? In hindsight this may be overpaying, stings a bit since it seems like we blew our load....but we are not a championship team (Cavs, GS, Hou, Celts) plus not offering these mid Tier guys opportunities for starter minutes.

Until we see the dynamic of Thibs new team with players he brought in specifically cause he trusts them and they own the system. Plus, give us swagger and toughness.

I enjoy reading and not posting, but the bulls#1t whining and complaining about how Thibs is conducting his offseason and spending is stupid. Some on here more then others, and frankly...it's a nasty starting 5 with Tyus, Dieng and Belly coming off the bench so far. I like it.

We have zero insight on negotiations. Taj to me doesn't seem to be a negative for players to say they don't want to come. To me it's Glen and how much we can offer.

It's not "whining and complaining. It's thoughtful disagreement with some of the things Thibs has done and praise for other things. That's what message boards are for. No one has said Taj will negatively impact whether players want to come here. Instead, some of are saying that using the rest of our cap space on him prematurely foreclosed other potential opportunities to sign high quality bench rotation players. Glen Taylor can't give out contracts that take us above the salary cap except by using the one "room exception" of $4.3 million and paying the vet minimum that ranges between $2 and $3 million.

Personally, I like Taj and think he'll be positive addition to the team. But I'd rather have the cap space right now given who's available and where the market has gone.

So since we are below the cap limit, we can't go above it? And since other teams are above they can continue to spend and stay above that level?

I'm confused on the max, cap ceiling, luxury tax levels and how the NBA doesn't punish more teams that spend like crazy (stupidly) and still add like Golden state has this summer. It's my real frustration with this league....players contracts are crazy out of control. Even the Taj at 14, Teague 18 and even Dieng at 15. Insane.

Appreciate the banter!

slimcalhoun27 wrote:So since we are below the cap limit, we can't go above it? And since other teams are above they can continue to spend and stay above that level?

I'm confused on the max, cap ceiling, luxury tax levels and how the NBA doesn't punish more teams that spend like crazy (stupidly) and still add like Golden state has this summer. It's my real frustration with this league....players contracts are crazy out of control. Even the Taj at 14, Teague 18 and even Dieng at 15. Insane.

Appreciate the banter!

I share your frustration. Seems silly to limit teams like the Wolves that start the year under the cap to a $4.3 million "room exception" while teams that have been over the cap for a year can use the full $8.3 million mid-level exception.

slimcalhoun27 wrote:So since we are below the cap limit, we can't go above it? And since other teams are above they can continue to spend and stay above that level?

I'm confused on the max, cap ceiling, luxury tax levels and how the NBA doesn't punish more teams that spend like crazy (stupidly) and still add like Golden state has this summer. It's my real frustration with this league....players contracts are crazy out of control. Even the Taj at 14, Teague 18 and even Dieng at 15. Insane.

Appreciate the banter!

I'll try and make it a bit simple...maybe.

So if you are under the cap you can spend that money. According to the cap experts we are like a million bucks under the cap so that's nothing. Obviously because it's that little they will end up over the cap at some point.

It's confusing to me about when you can get the exceptions but here they are.

If you are over the cap and in the lux tax you have a 5 million exception. This is what a team like Golden state has.

If you are over the cap to begin things but not in the lux tax you can spend about 8 million.

If you end up over the cap after making signings then you have the room exception at around 4 million. This is basically all the Wolves have.

There is also the Bi annual exception (BAE) which can be used every other year and it's like 2 million or something. It doesn't seem that the Wolves have this so they much have used it last year.

Some of the other moving around using cap holds and all that...way to complcated to explain writing stuff out and I don't always get it either.

The problem with the Wolves is that they were pretty far under the cap so they don't get the bigger exception like other teams so they will be down the food chain for money this year. Next year they will have the bigger exception to be able to get guys. Hopefully this year they can add one solid player with their 4 million dollar exception and find some solid players with the vet min. I would think Rush would be a guy that would sign for that if he wants to play here.

Miami just signed Olynyk to a 4-yr/$50 million deal ($12.5 million per year average). Question: Would you rather have (1) Gibson on a 2-yr $28 million deal ($14M per year), or (2) Olynyk on a 4-yr/$50 million deal ($12.5M per year)?

The Knicks are apparently interested in signing Jonathan Simmons but would likely have to trade O'Quinn or Courtney Lee to free the necessary cap space. Question: Would you rather have (1) Taj on the contract we're giving him, or (2) cap room to possibly swing a cap-absorbing trade for O'Quinn at around $4.5 million per year for 2 more years or Courtney Lee at around $11.5 million per year for the next 3 years?

Olynyk to Miami for 4 years 52 million. That's a decent deal. What i like about it is that it takes up a good chunk of space from a team and with players we can't get. i'm hoping they let Ellington go and if they do we should move quickly and offer him the Room exception. Maybe we could get a better player for that price it he can hit 3's and actually handle the ball just enough to be more than just a shooter and is a smart player. I'll take it. I'm probably overvaluing him a bit but I think he would be a nice get. There is a chance you don't get any of the better players like Miles, Afflalo, Henderson etc.

lipoli390 wrote:Miami just signed Olynyk to a 4-yr/$50 million deal ($12.5 million per year average). Question: Would you rather have (1) Gibson on a 2-yr $28 million deal ($14M per year), or (2) Olynyk on a 4-yr/$50 million deal ($12.5M per year)?

The Knicks are apparently interested in signing Jonathan Simmons but would likely have to trade O'Quinn or Courtney Lee to free the necessary cap space. Question: Would you rather have (1) Taj on the contract we're giving him, or (2) cap room to possibly swing a cap-absorbing trade for O'Quinn at around $4.5 million per year for 2 more years or Courtney Lee at around $11.5 million per year for the next 3 years?

I'd 100% take Gibson over Olynyk. Olynyk is a bad fit here defensively in an already bad defensive frontcourt. As far as option 2, is Courtney Lee that much better than for example Aaron Afflalo? O'Quinn isn't better than Gibson. There are guys on the market we might get anyway that are in the ballpark with Lee and O'Quinn and will cost a lot less. More money spent on a free agent doesn't equal better player. We still may get a couple effective guys for way less than everyone you've wanted in these trades with the exception of Crowder and I doubt the OKC pick is the best deal they are looking at to dump him.