Minnesota Sports Forum

TheFuture wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Khans, We all know the realities of a 82-game schedule and the load Wiggins had to carry last year. His motor (or lack thereof at times) has been questioned by multiple observers across multiple playing settings, whether it be his time as a prep player, at Kansas, the Wolves, or Team Canada. This isn't unique to fans on this message board.

I think Lip said it best. This isn't a question as to whether Wiggins will eventually become a very good player or not. This is a question as to whether he can achieve true greatness. Time will tell.

I brought up this lack of a "killer instinct" when we first traded for him because I thought it was a concern. Everyone pointed at Kevin Durant, Ray Allen, Tim Duncan, etc. To say someone doesn't have "inner fire" when they worked there ass off to get into college, then worked to get picked #1, was traded from a championship contender to a league bottom feeder yet accepted it and continued to work. Then he guards every best wing in the league, and dunks over gobert, asik, and anyone else in his way. Puts up 30 against LeBron and Cleveland to show them they screwed up. He wins rookie of the month nearly every time. Wins rookie of the year. He does all of this while all the good players on his team go down and he Plays most of the season with LaVine, Budinger, Dieng, Hummel, Payne, and a revolving door of d league centers. He skips the dunk contest to allow LaVine to have his moment, that's some maturity.

Tell me now, what did you do at 20 years old that says you can question his "inner fire"?

KG's inner fire was so great that he disappeared at the end of every close game, was too chicken shit to dunk on anybody, and only picked fights with guards.

I'd rather have a cool hand Luke type who just goes about his business than that.

Awesome post.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Exactly, time will tell. But i'm a little confused. Are we talking about his motor, or his competitive drive to compete and achieve? These are two different things. Competitive drive is more innate, but motor can improve as he develops his "man" muscles and stamina. What I'm saying is people are wrong to question his competitive desire because you just don't know how strong the fire is burning inside him. I have no problem with questions about his motor, because it needs to improve. But the good news is I think it can.

I'm not sure the two are completely mutually exclusive, but I mostly question his motor because it's an actual observable trait. One could just as easily attribute the lack of motor to not having a competitive fire or instinct, but to your point, I really don't know what's going on in his head.

TheFuture wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Khans, We all know the realities of a 82-game schedule and the load Wiggins had to carry last year. His motor (or lack thereof at times) has been questioned by multiple observers across multiple playing settings, whether it be his time as a prep player, at Kansas, the Wolves, or Team Canada. This isn't unique to fans on this message board.

I think Lip said it best. This isn't a question as to whether Wiggins will eventually become a very good player or not. This is a question as to whether he can achieve true greatness. Time will tell.

I brought up this lack of a "killer instinct" when we first traded for him because I thought it was a concern. Everyone pointed at Kevin Durant, Ray Allen, Tim Duncan, etc. To say someone doesn't have "inner fire" when they worked there ass off to get into college, then worked to get picked #1, was traded from a championship contender to a league bottom feeder yet accepted it and continued to work. Then he guards every best wing in the league, and dunks over gobert, asik, and anyone else in his way. Puts up 30 against LeBron and Cleveland to show them they screwed up. He wins rookie of the month nearly every time. Wins rookie of the year. He does all of this while all the good players on his team go down and he Plays most of the season with LaVine, Budinger, Dieng, Hummel, Payne, and a revolving door of d league centers. He skips the dunk contest to allow LaVine to have his moment, that's some maturity.

Tell me now, what did you accomplish at 19 years old that says you can question his "inner fire"?

KG's inner fire was so great that he disappeared at the end of every close game, was too chicken shit to dunk on anybody, and only picked fights with guards.

I'd rather have a cool hand Luke type who just goes about his business than that.

Nice rant....a few points:

- As I mentioned in the post above, these questions about his motor, killer instinct, competitive fire - whatever you want to call it - has come up in various settings by various observers, so you can keep flogging away at the grind he went through as an NBA rookie - we're all very familiar with that - but these questions have been there in contexts outside of his NBA rookie year.

- When I was 19, I wasn't a millionaire with a former NBA-er for a Dad and Olympic sprinter for a Mom who had been in the spotlight for 6 years already. I don't think Wiggins was the "normal" 19-year old like most of us nitwits, so that's kind of a dumb comparison to make. The dude has been preparing and training for this profession since practically the day he was born.

- I already acknowledged in an earlier post the maturity he showed by skipping the dunk contest. I agree - he's a very mature, humble guy. I like that about him.

- I have no doubt that Wiggins will be a very good player. But if he wants to put together the type of HOF career many of us hope for, he's going to need to take his energy up a notch or two on a more frequent basis.

Q12543 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Khans, We all know the realities of a 82-game schedule and the load Wiggins had to carry last year. His motor (or lack thereof at times) has been questioned by multiple observers across multiple playing settings, whether it be his time as a prep player, at Kansas, the Wolves, or Team Canada. This isn't unique to fans on this message board.

I think Lip said it best. This isn't a question as to whether Wiggins will eventually become a very good player or not. This is a question as to whether he can achieve true greatness. Time will tell.

I brought up this lack of a "killer instinct" when we first traded for him because I thought it was a concern. Everyone pointed at Kevin Durant, Ray Allen, Tim Duncan, etc. To say someone doesn't have "inner fire" when they worked there ass off to get into college, then worked to get picked #1, was traded from a championship contender to a league bottom feeder yet accepted it and continued to work. Then he guards every best wing in the league, and dunks over gobert, asik, and anyone else in his way. Puts up 30 against LeBron and Cleveland to show them they screwed up. He wins rookie of the month nearly every time. Wins rookie of the year. He does all of this while all the good players on his team go down and he Plays most of the season with LaVine, Budinger, Dieng, Hummel, Payne, and a revolving door of d league centers. He skips the dunk contest to allow LaVine to have his moment, that's some maturity.

Tell me now, what did you accomplish at 19 years old that says you can question his "inner fire"?

KG's inner fire was so great that he disappeared at the end of every close game, was too chicken shit to dunk on anybody, and only picked fights with guards.

I'd rather have a cool hand Luke type who just goes about his business than that.

Nice rant....a few points:

- As I mentioned in the post above, these questions about his motor, killer instinct, competitive fire - whatever you want to call it - has come up in various settings by various observers, so you can keep flogging away at the grind he went through as an NBA rookie - we're all very familiar with that - but these questions have been there in contexts outside of his NBA rookie year.

- When I was 19, I wasn't a millionaire with a former NBA-er for a Dad and Olympic sprinter for a Mom who had been in the spotlight for 6 years already. I don't think Wiggins was the "normal" 19-year old like most of us nitwits, so that's kind of a dumb comparison to make. The dude has been preparing and training for this profession since practically the day he was born.

- I already acknowledged in an earlier post the maturity he showed by skipping the dunk contest. I agree - he's a very mature, humble guy. I like that about him.

- I have no doubt that Wiggins will be a very good player. But if he wants to put together the type of HOF career many of us hope for, he's going to need to take his energy up a notch or two on a more frequent basis.

I think that's a fair assessment

Q12543 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Khans, We all know the realities of a 82-game schedule and the load Wiggins had to carry last year. His motor (or lack thereof at times) has been questioned by multiple observers across multiple playing settings, whether it be his time as a prep player, at Kansas, the Wolves, or Team Canada. This isn't unique to fans on this message board.

I think Lip said it best. This isn't a question as to whether Wiggins will eventually become a very good player or not. This is a question as to whether he can achieve true greatness. Time will tell.

I brought up this lack of a "killer instinct" when we first traded for him because I thought it was a concern. Everyone pointed at Kevin Durant, Ray Allen, Tim Duncan, etc. To say someone doesn't have "inner fire" when they worked there ass off to get into college, then worked to get picked #1, was traded from a championship contender to a league bottom feeder yet accepted it and continued to work. Then he guards every best wing in the league, and dunks over gobert, asik, and anyone else in his way. Puts up 30 against LeBron and Cleveland to show them they screwed up. He wins rookie of the month nearly every time. Wins rookie of the year. He does all of this while all the good players on his team go down and he Plays most of the season with LaVine, Budinger, Dieng, Hummel, Payne, and a revolving door of d league centers. He skips the dunk contest to allow LaVine to have his moment, that's some maturity.

Tell me now, what did you accomplish at 19 years old that says you can question his "inner fire"?

KG's inner fire was so great that he disappeared at the end of every close game, was too chicken shit to dunk on anybody, and only picked fights with guards.

I'd rather have a cool hand Luke type who just goes about his business than that.

Nice rant....a few points:

- As I mentioned in the post above, these questions about his motor, killer instinct, competitive fire - whatever you want to call it - has come up in various settings by various observers, so you can keep flogging away at the grind he went through as an NBA rookie - we're all very familiar with that - but these questions have been there in contexts outside of his NBA rookie year.

- When I was 19, I wasn't a millionaire with a former NBA-er for a Dad and Olympic sprinter for a Mom who had been in the spotlight for 6 years already. I don't think Wiggins was the "normal" 19-year old like most of us nitwits, so that's kind of a dumb comparison to make. The dude has been preparing and training for this profession since practically the day he was born.

- I already acknowledged in an earlier post the maturity he showed by skipping the dunk contest. I agree - he's a very mature, humble guy. I like that about him.

- I have no doubt that Wiggins will be a very good player. But if he wants to put together the type of HOF career many of us hope for, he's going to need to take his energy up a notch or two on a more frequent basis.

Yeah, you're very familiar with what he accomplished over the season, yet you want to disregard the accomplishments and spin it in a form to fit your agenda. Everything he did over the year negates all your points about his lack of a motor.

Where do we draw the line on motor vs actual results. Shabazz and LaVine have a better "inner fire" or "motor", yet who produced most on both ends of the court. Corey Brewer had a great motor because he ran fast down the court looking for an easy cherry pick??? How many times did that, or his desire to try to steal the ball every damn pass, completely break down our defense?? Everyone is way over the top about this motor thing.

You all lump Kobe, MJ, and KG together because they wear their emotions on their sleeve, and equate that to some kind of greatness like they did it themselves.. Kobe never did it alone, KG never did it alone, and MJ never did it alone. If Andrew is #1 great, or if he is #2 and defers to a #1 who will show themselves in coming seasons, then great. Either way he plays smart basketball, defends well, and can score in multiple ways. Is it that hard to just enjoy the idea that we may have a great basketball player growing on our team? Talking about the Hall of Fame already? Let's stop being the typical doom and gloom Minnesota sports fans who nitpick and constantly expects the worst outcome. Instead, enjoy the ride.

I don't expect a MJ, LeBron, Kobe, etc. I expect a reversal of fortunes for this franchise, and whether he is a hall of famer or not, he will be a big part of it. That's perfectly fine.

Look at his stats and compare him to those other elite players at 19 years old, and he's definitely up there. It says something that we are even putting him in this conversation with those greats, and nitpicking him so much. Can't wait for this year, it's going to be a fun one.

"motor", "fire" "heart"....what sort of metrics or devices are we using to measure these things? Is Wiggins heart two sizes too small like the Grinch? I have to believe the medical staff would have caught that in the pre-draft physical.

Carlos Danger wrote:"motor", "fire" "heart"....what sort of metrics or devices are we using to measure these things? Is Wiggins heart two sizes too small like the Grinch? I have to believe the medical staff would have caught that in the pre-draft physical.

Hey, anything is possible. Perhaps with the new facility Flip installed, they can find out these things!

But actually, no miracle of modern medicine is needed. The things people are questioning are easily observed by how he plays. How hard does he run? How many charges does he take? How low of a stance does he get into defensively? Does he get back quickly off missed shots? Does he dive for loose balls? Does he win 50/50 balls?

I don't think he has to be the next Bobby Jones (or Jerry Sloan or Dennis Rodman or Tyler Hansborough or...fill in the blank with your favorite high-energy lunchpail player), as those guys didn't need to score 20+ PPG. But I would like to see some more of these things happen. He seems like he's always in 3rd gear. Granted, he did put it in 5th on a couple of those monster dunks last year and that was very cool. More of that on non-dunk plays would be welcomed.

I don't feel the need to apologize for Andrew, but to me he just seemed out of gas much of the time. He was asked to do so much that I think he had to find ways to conserve energy on the court. The body language I noticed was that of someone who was both mentally and physically drained half the time. He will gain more stamina as he ages, and certainly more strength.

I'm not sure I want him taking charges all the time or recklessly diving on the floor. But I hope we start to see that 5th gear more often. I really don't think it has anything to do with his will however.

I think we need to keep playing Wiggins with Bazz provided they are both healthy. There seemed to be a positive feedback happening when the two were on the floor together. Won't always be pretty, but has the potential to be very disruptive on both ends. I felt a lot of Wiggins looking lost was the fact there was no one directing traffic on both ends of the floor last year and had nothing to do with his motor. I have zero worries about whether or not he will improve in this area.

Carlos Danger wrote:"motor", "fire" "heart"....what sort of metrics or devices are we using to measure these things? Is Wiggins heart two sizes too small like the Grinch? I have to believe the medical staff would have caught that in the pre-draft physical.

Probably the same metrics that measure mentoring!