Minnesota Sports Forum

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:

thedoper wrote:Dlo at an extension at the right price is a bigger trade asset than him as an expiring contract. The biggest issue remains DLo's perception of his own value at this point.

Yep. Not only that, but the value of what D'Angelo Russell provides on the court is better than what any of the gettable alternatives at point guard could provide. I do not see a better option available in the near future.

Again, this is all irrelevant if it's a one-sided demand of "give me a max contract or I'm testing free agency." I just don't see how that's a logical play from Russell's representation so I'm operating under the assumption that's not the case. I expect there to be a middle ground that could be found.

Man, are you going to be disappointed.

Wow, good comment. Insightful.

I doubt DLO cares but remember last time he was a FA and he choose GSW and then cost MN real assets just so we could pair him with his buddy KAT? I would remind him how much he's valued here and what was given up to obtain him and ask him if he can also give up a little in extension talks. Ultimately his response would determine if he is worth keeping around long term or not.

Tactical unit wrote:I doubt DLO cares but remember last time he was a FA and he choose GSW and then cost MN real assets just so we could pair him with his buddy KAT? I would remind him how much he's valued here and what was given up to obtain him and ask him if he can also give up a little in extension talks. Ultimately his response would determine if he is worth keeping around long term or not.

That's not really what happened, though. It's revisionist history that lacks appropriate context. When D'Angelo Russell was a free agent Minnesota was already above the cap-- ie. the Wolves had zero cap space. This means that Minnesota could not sign Russell as a free agent outright. At the time, any deal Russell could have agreed to with Minnesota would have been entirely contingent on Gersson Rosas finding a way to dump enough salary in order to take on Russell's. The salary that was most likely to be moved was either Andrew Wiggins' or both of Jeff Teague and Gorgui Dieng's. Reports indicated at the time that in order to move Wiggins' max contract the Wolves would have to attach at least one first-round pick. Some reports mentioned two first-round picks would be needed to make that happen without salary incoming.

Russell did not cost Minnesota assets by choosing to sign with Golden State. He couldn't have simply signed with the Wolves as a free agent because there was no space to sign him with. That didn't stop Gersson Rosas from courting/recruiting him anyways. Perhaps that's where the confusion lies. It could more accurately be argued that Andrew Wiggins cost Minnesota assets when his play failed to live up to his potential and therefore the max contract he signed, which eventually led to the Wolves having to salary dump his deal to the Warriors.

In any event, none of that really matters anymore as I feel like both teams got what they wanted out of the deal, but we need to remember the past accurately. To your point, though, it certainly wouldn't hurt if Karl-Anthony Towns reaffirmed to Russell that he wants him to stay in Minnesota long-term. Ideally, both of them sign extensions this summer.

thedoper wrote:I think DLo is worth 20-25 per, which in my mind means anything up to 30 would be tradeable moving forward. If we lock Dlo into a nice deal moving forward, I think that would increase his trade value. If we overpay it would be a negative asset imo. This initial negotiation is big for Connelly any way you look at it.

You're all sick lol. You think he's worth 20-25, so 30 would be tradeable... ok that makes no sense. He's worth 12-14/year and that's IF he accepts a role as a 6th man.

Also, I'm so tired of hearing about how he was a key piece to a 46 win team... the wolves were a 38 win team last year that played in a weak conference that was absolutely hammered by injuries. As currently constructed and assuming all teams have equal health next year I don't think this teams sniffs 46 wins again. It's like saying he was a key piece of a 46 win team is the new version of saying he was an all star back when he was an injury replacement in a weak conference.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:

thedoper wrote:Dlo at an extension at the right price is a bigger trade asset than him as an expiring contract. The biggest issue remains DLo's perception of his own value at this point.

Yep. Not only that, but the value of what D'Angelo Russell provides on the court is better than what any of the gettable alternatives at point guard could provide. I do not see a better option available in the near future.

Again, this is all irrelevant if it's a one-sided demand of "give me a max contract or I'm testing free agency." I just don't see how that's a logical play from Russell's representation so I'm operating under the assumption that's not the case. I expect there to be a middle ground that could be found.

Man, are you going to be disappointed.

Right. It's like Camden and some of these other people haven't watched him play since Ohio st lol.

D-Loser wrote:

thedoper wrote:I think DLo is worth 20-25 per, which in my mind means anything up to 30 would be tradeable moving forward. If we lock Dlo into a nice deal moving forward, I think that would increase his trade value. If we overpay it would be a negative asset imo. This initial negotiation is big for Connelly any way you look at it.

You're all sick lol. You think he's worth 20-25, so 30 would be tradeable... ok that makes no sense. He's worth 12-14/year and that's IF he accepts a role as a 6th man.

Also, I'm so tired of hearing about how he was a key piece to a 46 win team... the wolves were a 38 win team last year that played in a weak conference that was absolutely hammered by injuries. As currently constructed and assuming all teams have equal health next year I don't think this teams sniffs 46 wins again. It's like saying he was a key piece of a 46 win team is the new version of saying he was an all star back when he was an injury replacement in a weak conference.

That is such a ludicrous take, so you can just take away 8 wins because you want to??? That is ludicrous. Injuries happen, the key is hopefully staying away from them. There will be huge injuries again next year and we got to hope they don't effect the wolves to much.

At the end of the day here is what we know the wolves are 52-36 lifetime when Dlo and Kat play together over 3 seasons and 11-26 when Kat plays and Dlo doesn't.

Dlo and Kat lineups were a +7.6 this year 89th percentile of all NBA lineups. Dlo, Kat and Ant lineups were a +9 this year 90th percentile. So our big 3 played really damn good together this year.

Dlo took a step back in efficiency this year but made strides in playmaking, defense and leadership (obviously the leadership is a personal opinion) now does Dlo efficiency return to years past or is his effort on those other aspects of his game effecting his efficiency.

Dlo was a main reason the wolves won the play in game but he sucked in the playoffs. Is that just small sample size or a thing for years to come. That is something Tim Connelly to figure out.

Me personally I think Dlo is in general inconsistent, who is a solid #3 options who has been clutch in his career but the wolves might need to improve on. There hasn't been a single trade I've seen on this board in my opinion that raises the wolves ceiling. At the end of the day it comes down to money because Dlo isn't a negative player. Also if the wolves move on from Dlo what player of players help jump the wolves up a tier.

Also if you don't think the wolves can't snif 46 wins again you have no faith in Ant, Kat or mcdaniels so they should blow it up because Dlo isn't holding those players back

2017-18: 47-35 ~ Jimmy Butler ~

2018-19: 36-46 ~ TimberBulls continued post-Butler ~

2019-20: 19-45 ~ D'Angelo Russell traded to Minnesota on February 7th ~

2020-21: 23-49 ~ Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell miss 52 games combined (36-percent of possible games) ~

2021-22: 46-36 ~ Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell lead Minnesota to the 7th-seed and play-in victory ~

Loser: "The wolves were a 38 win team last year..."

Oof. Fabrication is a weird way to form an argument, but when you're unable to do so with facts and supporting context this is what you have to resort to. Very much on brand. You have to love it.

Camden wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:I doubt DLO cares but remember last time he was a FA and he choose GSW and then cost MN real assets just so we could pair him with his buddy KAT? I would remind him how much he's valued here and what was given up to obtain him and ask him if he can also give up a little in extension talks. Ultimately his response would determine if he is worth keeping around long term or not.

That's not really what happened, though. It's revisionist history that lacks appropriate context. When D'Angelo Russell was a free agent Minnesota was already above the cap-- ie. the Wolves had zero cap space. This means that Minnesota could not sign Russell as a free agent outright. At the time, any deal Russell could have agreed to with Minnesota would have been entirely contingent on Gersson Rosas finding a way to dump enough salary in order to take on Russell's. The salary that was most likely to be moved was either Andrew Wiggins' or both of Jeff Teague and Gorgui Dieng's. Reports indicated at the time that in order to move Wiggins' max contract the Wolves would have to attach at least one first-round pick. Some reports mentioned two first-round picks would be needed to make that happen without salary incoming.

Russell did not cost Minnesota assets by choosing to sign with Golden State. He couldn't have simply signed with the Wolves as a free agent because there was no space to sign him with. That didn't stop Gersson Rosas from courting/recruiting him anyways. Perhaps that's where the confusion lies. It could more accurately be argued that Andrew Wiggins cost Minnesota assets when his play failed to live up to his potential and therefore the max contract he signed, which eventually led to the Wolves having to salary dump his deal to the Warriors.

In any event, none of that really matters anymore as I feel like both teams got what they wanted out of the deal, but we need to remember the past accurately. To your point, though, it certainly wouldn't hurt if Karl-Anthony Towns reaffirmed to Russell that he wants him to stay in Minnesota long-term. Ideally, both of them sign extensions this summer.

I was unaware of the cap issues and thought he just cost MN assets by going to GSW, that actually makes more sense then why he choose to just go get his money and join an offensive juggernaut. How much do you think a solid rotation player like Beasley or T. Prince will make in next 1-3 years? I think DLO should get about a 25-33% bump above that range. Do you think he is worth max money?

At the end of the day here is what we know the wolves are 52-36 lifetime when Dlo and Kat play together

This is the DLO haters' blind spot and what they rarely acknowledge or just can't bring themselves to admit. The Wolves have been a damn good team when DLO and KAT play together and quite terrible when DLO doesn't play. And that's a big sample size over multiple seasons.

Now go back and look at KAT/Wiggins or KAT/LaVine playing together. Total train wreck.

My thesis on DLO is that he's a guy that can help you get from bad to good, but not necessarily from good to great. It's more of a long-term fit issue for me. I think Ant ultimately needs a different kind of PG next to him.

kekgeek1 wrote:

D-Loser wrote:

thedoper wrote:I think DLo is worth 20-25 per, which in my mind means anything up to 30 would be tradeable moving forward. If we lock Dlo into a nice deal moving forward, I think that would increase his trade value. If we overpay it would be a negative asset imo. This initial negotiation is big for Connelly any way you look at it.

You're all sick lol. You think he's worth 20-25, so 30 would be tradeable... ok that makes no sense. He's worth 12-14/year and that's IF he accepts a role as a 6th man.

Also, I'm so tired of hearing about how he was a key piece to a 46 win team... the wolves were a 38 win team last year that played in a weak conference that was absolutely hammered by injuries. As currently constructed and assuming all teams have equal health next year I don't think this teams sniffs 46 wins again. It's like saying he was a key piece of a 46 win team is the new version of saying he was an all star back when he was an injury replacement in a weak conference.

That is such a ludicrous take, so you can just take away 8 wins because you want to??? That is ludicrous. Injuries happen, the key is hopefully staying away from them. There will be huge injuries again next year and we got to hope they don't effect the wolves to much.

At the end of the day here is what we know the wolves are 52-36 lifetime when Dlo and Kat play together over 3 seasons and 11-26 when Kat plays and Dlo doesn't.

Dlo and Kat lineups were a +7.6 this year 89th percentile of all NBA lineups. Dlo, Kat and Ant lineups were a +9 this year 90th percentile. So our big 3 played really damn good together this year.

Dlo took a step back in efficiency this year but made strides in playmaking, defense and leadership (obviously the leadership is a personal opinion) now does Dlo efficiency return to years past or is his effort on those other aspects of his game effecting his efficiency.

Dlo was a main reason the wolves won the play in game but he sucked in the playoffs. Is that just small sample size or a thing for years to come. That is something Tim Connelly to figure out.

Me personally I think Dlo is in general inconsistent, who is a solid #3 options who has been clutch in his career but the wolves might need to improve on. There hasn't been a single trade I've seen on this board in my opinion that raises the wolves ceiling. At the end of the day it comes down to money because Dlo isn't a negative player. Also if the wolves move on from Dlo what player of players help jump the wolves up a tier.

Also if you don't think the wolves can't snif 46 wins again you have no faith in Ant, Kat or mcdaniels so they should blow it up because Dlo isn't holding those players back

Do you think we win the play in game if the clippers have their best player? We had our best players available for that game. We had good health from our important players all year. If kat would have been hurt all year and we win 30 games, this board would have been saying that we're not a 30 win team... but when teams like Denver, the clippers and the lakers (to name a few) are missing their top guys, I don't hear anyone saying that our record is inflated. Where's the objectivity? Yeah, unfortunately, as constructed this is probably a 41 win team next year, even with some progression from ant, and jaden (if you assume all teams have their guys healthy). The reason a lot of you don't see any upgrades over Dlo is because I honestly think your view of Dlo is a bit delusional. If you viewed him correctly, I think you'd start seeing quite a few upgrade scenarios. Time will tell. Heck, time already told in the playoffs, but some of you don't want to see it.