Trade Target Performance Tracker

[AbeVigodaLive]

32 points, 2 steals and a block from Josh Richardson tonight. Do the Heat really want to give up the 25-year old Richardson along with the young talent Adebayo and their 2019 first round pick for Jimmy Butler? At some point, and maybe that point has been reached, Pat Riley will tell Thibodeau to keep Jimmy and shove him up his ass.

Miami lost tonight in spite of Richardson's 32 points. Dragic was out again with a sore foot. Maybe Riley will simply give up on this season and hope for a lottery pick, in which case, he'll have no interest in Butler. The window for a deal with the Heat won't stay open forever.

The Heat have played eight games to this point and Richardson has shot below 40% in the majority of those games -- FIVE to be exact. And while he's averaging 19.1 points per game, it's taking him almost 17 shots per game to get there. Even with that volume he's not posting above a league average 15.00 Player Efficiency Rating. Surface-level statistical analysis because, well, it's still too early, but I continue to have a hard time buying into the hype. His effiency and overall impact on the game is slipping because he's having to do too much. Just not excited about a solid 3/D player stretching himself past his ability while others make him out to be a rising star. Richardson is not that.

I lean towards the idea that some of you are propping Richardson up to make it feel like he'll be an awesome get in return for Butler should the Wolves go that way. Understandable, but it needs to be stated nonetheless.

The inefficiency is an issue. The lack of free throws is an issue. But "having to do too much" remains a critical part of the equation. As we've said for many years now... the Wolves only go as far as KAT and Wiggins (good or bad). Richardson would fall in line behind those max guys... especially considering he'd be making 1/3 the money.

Maybe not a perfect get... but I still believe there's something there in a package.


[Note: I feel bad every time I group Wiggins and KAT together. I don't think they're remotely close as players beyond salaries.]

[Lipoli390]

Buddy Hield's insane progression continues. He was an elite shooter last year and now he's even better this year. Also rounded out his game to become a complete player. And to think we could have had either him or Jamal Murray and we came away with Kris Dunn.

The single biggest mistake of the Thibodeau era, if you ask me.

I agree, Cam. The Dunn pick over the two guys you and I preferred was indeed Thibodeau's single biggest blunder as PBO. Here's my list of Thibodeau's worst mistakes in his role as PBO:

1. Drafting Dunn instead of either Hield or Murray
2. Failing to proactively address the Butler situation one way or the other last June
3. Not trading Wiggins in lieu of the LaVine package for Butler
4. Drafting Patton instead of John Collins or Anunoby
5. Gorgui's contract
6. Signing Teague. (I'm ok with the Rubio deal, which brought us Okogie. My beef has always been with signing Teague to fill the void, especially his contract. We could have signed Darren Collison who brings the same qualities but at half the price)

None of these six are based soley on hindsight since I expressed the same view of these moves at the time they were made.

Yet, Thibodeau's tenure as PBO hasn't been all bad. Here's a list of what I'd call successes in his role as PBO:

1. Drafting Okogie

2. Trading Rubio and refusing to trade the pick. I think pick in the 20s was about the best any PBO could have gotten for Ricky and in hindsight it looks good because it landed Okogie. However, what really makes the Rubio trade look good was Thibodeau's refusal to trade the pick we got in return for Ricky. That's why I put these two things together.

3. Signing Taj Gibson. I do think Thibodeau overpaid for Taj relative to what other teams were reportedly offering, but Taj has been a tremendous addition to the team and a true leader who I'll bet is helping KAT in we don't know.

4. Signing Derrick Rose. I didn't see anything wrong with signing Rose to a vet minimum deal, but I'll admit I didn't see Rose emerging the way he has into a productive player who still has some of what he once had when he was the League's MVP. He may never get 50, 40 or even 30 points again and he may get hurt again, but he's helping the team, setting a great example and inspiring the younger players with the kind of effort it takes to be successful but without any egomaniacal garbage.

So I'd say Thibodeau's tenure as PBO has been a mixed bag. When you add it all up, it's a C- in my view. It's certainly no better than average. It could be as high as a B-, but his poor handling of the Butler situation has to be given more weight because it is a particularly bad type of blunder for an executive - namely, failing for months to address an obviously serious situation to the point where it gets out of control. It's the sort of thing that gets executives fired immediately in any business even if the executives have been otherwise highly successful. In this case, this colossal blunder was committed by an otherwise mediocre executive with a mixed-bag record. But alas, he's still here. And it's not like he's be stellar in his role as head coach.

[Lipoli390]

32 points, 2 steals and a block from Josh Richardson tonight. Do the Heat really want to give up the 25-year old Richardson along with the young talent Adebayo and their 2019 first round pick for Jimmy Butler? At some point, and maybe that point has been reached, Pat Riley will tell Thibodeau to keep Jimmy and shove him up his ass.

Miami lost tonight in spite of Richardson's 32 points. Dragic was out again with a sore foot. Maybe Riley will simply give up on this season and hope for a lottery pick, in which case, he'll have no interest in Butler. The window for a deal with the Heat won't stay open forever.

The Heat have played eight games to this point and Richardson has shot below 40% in the majority of those games -- FIVE to be exact. And while he's averaging 19.1 points per game, it's taking him almost 17 shots per game to get there. Even with that volume he's not posting above a league average 15.00 Player Efficiency Rating. Surface-level statistical analysis because, well, it's still too early, but I continue to have a hard time buying into the hype. His effiency and overall impact on the game is slipping because he's having to do too much. Just not excited about a solid 3/D player stretching himself past his ability while others make him out to be a rising star. Richardson is not that.

I lean towards the idea that some of you are propping Richardson up to make it feel like he'll be an awesome get in return for Butler should the Wolves go that way. Understandable, but it needs to be stated nonetheless.

Good points, Cam. I'm not looking at Richardson as an awesome return for Butler. And while I think Richardson could develop into an allstar caliber player, I'm not necessarily counting on it. I just look at Richardson + Adebayo and Miami's 2019 pick as a very good return for Butler under the circumstances even if it means taking Waiters' contract back. Richardson's efficiency needs to improve, mainly by getting to the line more. But I like his shooting and ballhandling. I also like his defense and the fact that he gets steals and blocks every game. I can see him fitting really well long term with KAT and Okogie. The key for me, from the beginning, has always been getting Adebayo along with Richardson. Getting both plus a first round pick from the late teens to mid-20s strikes me as a terrific deal under the circumstances.

[Wolvesfan21]

Well said Lip. I agree mostly with what you have said however, I would say the Taj signing is not as strong as you say. My ultimate goal which should be Thibs goal is to win a championship. Taj has not and will not be part of that equation. Thus I feel, no matter how good he has been in the short term, and he has, isn't a part of a longer term championship team.

Not a full blunder, but not a wise choice either for the long term.

[mjs34]

Buddy Hield's insane progression continues. He was an elite shooter last year and now he's even better this year. Also rounded out his game to become a complete player. And to think we could have had either him or Jamal Murray and we came away with Kris Dunn.

The single biggest mistake of the Thibodeau era, if you ask me.

I agree, Cam. The Dunn pick over the two guys you and I preferred was indeed Thibodeau's single biggest blunder as PBO. Here's my list of Thibodeau's worst mistakes in his role as PBO:

1. Drafting Dunn instead of either Hield or Murray
2. Failing to proactively address the Butler situation one way or the other last June
3. Not trading Wiggins in lieu of the LaVine package for Butler
4. Drafting Patton instead of John Collins or Anunoby
5. Gorgui's contract
6. Signing Teague. (I'm ok with the Rubio deal, which brought us Okogie. My beef has always been with signing Teague to fill the void, especially his contract. We could have signed Darren Collison who brings the same qualities but at half the price)

None of these six are based soley on hindsight since I expressed the same view of these moves at the time they were made.

Yet, Thibodeau's tenure as PBO hasn't been all bad. Here's a list of what I'd call successes in his role as PBO:

1. Drafting Okogie

2. Trading Rubio and refusing to trade the pick. I think pick in the 20s was about the best any PBO could have gotten for Ricky and in hindsight it looks good because it landed Okogie. However, what really makes the Rubio trade look good was Thibodeau's refusal to trade the pick we got in return for Ricky. That's why I put these two things together.

3. Signing Taj Gibson. I do think Thibodeau overpaid for Taj relative to what other teams were reportedly offering, but Taj has been a tremendous addition to the team and a true leader who I'll bet is helping KAT in we don't know.

4. Signing Derrick Rose. I didn't see anything wrong with signing Rose to a vet minimum deal, but I'll admit I didn't see Rose emerging the way he has into a productive player who still has some of what he once had when he was the League's MVP. He may never get 50, 40 or even 30 points again and he may get hurt again, but he's helping the team, setting a great example and inspiring the younger players with the kind of effort it takes to be successful but without any egomaniacal garbage.

So I'd say Thibodeau's tenure as PBO has been a mixed bag. When you add it all up, it's a C- in my view. It's certainly no better than average. It could be as high as a B-, but his poor handling of the Butler situation has to be given more weight because it is a particularly bad type of blunder for an executive - namely, failing for months to address an obviously serious situation to the point where it gets out of control. It's the sort of thing that gets executives fired immediately in any business even if the executives have been otherwise highly successful. In this case, this colossal blunder was committed by an otherwise mediocre executive with a mixed-bag record. But alas, he's still here. And it's not like he's be stellar in his role as head coach.

I have to believe that Dieng was the biggest mistake. There were actually two mistakes, the first being not waiting for RFA and the second being drastically overpaying him. It is clear from that move, the offer to Bazz, and signing Cole to a 3 year deal with no intention of using him, that Thibs should have never been near a FO job.

Trading Rubio was also a big mistake. Getting Okogie certainly helps to make up for it, but would we be any worse off with 5 mil to sign another player? Would that have gotten us Miles in place of Crawford? The Rubio/Teague move was clearly done because Thibs doesn't have an offensive scheme, and felt he needed another scorer to cover that up. What Thibs apparently didn't notice is that Rubio can create an offense on the fly. Teague was never meant to score big points. He is an opportunity scorer only. We also lost significant defense in the move as well. My guess was that Butler wanted Rubio moved so he could monopolize the ball.

What I have continually struggled with is the defensive part of the equation. The majority of Thibs moves have been based on offense only.

[KG4Ever]

Other than drafting Okogie, every move Thibs done has been a negative. I disagree with those who think the Taj move was good. Taj isn't answer to anything yet he bloated our payroll (especially when u factor his signing with Dieng) and took away playing time from someone who might be here when the Wolves are relevant. Plus if he helped win one more game he kept Thibs from being fired. I'm not happy we have Taj.

[Monster]

I often think the take of "If a guy is making x amount of money and isn't the x player on a championship team then..." it a bit too simplistic but I think it's worth considering. Is Otto Porter (I doubt he Wizards would have a chance of resigning Butler with all their mess anyway) getting paid max money the 3rd best player on a championship team? Even though I don't think he is an option I'm not even sure Beal is. Unless Porter really improves the answer is no. Richardson (with Waiters) might not even be as good as Porter and he is still making over 20 million a year when paired with Waiters and taking up 2 roster spots. Paying a guy that isn't the answer could be problematic and that's what Kahns has been trying to say and I think that angle absolutely has merit. I'd like to make a deal...I'd like to have already made a deal but some of these deals are leaning more doing a deal to do a deal than getting something of particular real value when you consider the salary considerations.

People say we don't have the leverage of other teams in some of these situations. The Spurs (and Pacers with PG) didn't really have much leverage either. Everyone knew Kawhi wanted out. Some people are praising that deal using it against the Wolves. People forget that the Raptors also got Danny Green who has one year left on his deal but his numbers so far would basically be one of his best years of his career. Starting level wings like that are very valuable. Derozen has been very good but that's not a big surprise. Poeltl is a guy I like a lot but he has played 43 minutes so far. Obviously he could be very useful down the road possibly even this season. People absolutely rip Thibs and the Wolves for reportedly wanting pieces to win now but that's EXACTLY what the vaunted Spurs did with their deal. Kawhi is a true MVP type player when healthy so I don't expect the same return for Butler (who is a hell of a player when healthy) but often people saying we have no chance to get something pretty valueable back seems like kinda BS at some point. There is a narrative that Leonard straight up didn't play in games because he was unhappy with one of the best organizations is sports and the Raptors gave up a very good player to get him.

At this point honestly I feel like I have almost zero idea how this is going to end. Some team is going to pony up something for Butler and then the clock will start ticking on us finding out if that return was a good move or not. We may truly not know for years how to judge that return. (Remember how the Kings were grilled for Buddy being centerpiece of a Cousins trade?) Unfortunately I think there is a pretty good chance at this point it's going to take a while for something to happen. I thought the Houston 4 1st round picks would get things rolling but it doesn't seem like it has. The Wolves have looked good enough to not panic on dealing Butler. It looked like Butler was sitting out games to make a trade happen but then he played again. Time to buckle up for a while and also be ready for something to come completely out of nowhere.

[Lipoli390]

I often think the take of "If a guy is making x amount of money and isn't the x player on a championship team then..." it a bit too simplistic but I think it's worth considering. Is Otto Porter (I doubt he Wizards would have a chance of resigning Butler with all their mess anyway) getting paid max money the 3rd best player on a championship team? Even though I don't think he is an option I'm not even sure Beal is. Unless Porter really improves the answer is no. Richardson (with Waiters) might not even be as good as Porter and he is still making over 20 million a year when paired with Waiters and taking up 2 roster spots. Paying a guy that isn't the answer could be problematic and that's what Kahns has been trying to say and I think that angle absolutely has merit. I'd like to make a deal...I'd like to have already made a deal but some of these deals are leaning more doing a deal to do a deal than getting something of particular real value when you consider the salary considerations.

People say we don't have the leverage of other teams in some of these situations. The Spurs (and Pacers with PG) didn't really have much leverage either. Everyone knew Kawhi wanted out. Some people are praising that deal using it against the Wolves. People forget that the Raptors also got Danny Green who has one year left on his deal but his numbers so far would basically be one of his best years of his career. Starting level wings like that are very valuable. Derozen has been very good but that's not a big surprise. Poeltl is a guy I like a lot but he has played 43 minutes so far. Obviously he could be very useful down the road possibly even this season. People absolutely rip Thibs and the Wolves for reportedly wanting pieces to win now but that's EXACTLY what the vaunted Spurs did with their deal. Kawhi is a true MVP type player when healthy so I don't expect the same return for Butler (who is a hell of a player when healthy) but often people saying we have no chance to get something pretty valueable back seems like kinda BS at some point. There is a narrative that Leonard straight up didn't play in games because he was unhappy with one of the best organizations is sports and the Raptors gave up a very good player to get him.

At this point honestly I feel like I have almost zero idea how this is going to end. Some team is going to pony up something for Butler and then the clock will start ticking on us finding out if that return was a good move or not. We may truly not know for years how to judge that return. (Remember how the Kings were grilled for Buddy being centerpiece of a Cousins trade?) Unfortunately I think there is a pretty good chance at this point it's going to take a while for something to happen. I thought the Houston 4 1st round picks would get things rolling but it doesn't seem like it has. The Wolves have looked good enough to not panic on dealing Butler. It looked like Butler was sitting out games to make a trade happen but then he played again. Time to buckle up for a while and also be ready for something to come completely out of nowhere.

Monster - A few points:

1. As you acknowledged, Butler's older than Kawhi's and not at Kawhi's level. And yet, what did the Spurs get in return? An allstar but not a superstar by any stretch in DeRozan, a very good role playe/3-point shooting specialist in Green, and a decent young prospect in Poeltl. So let's face it, the Wolves are not going to get Simmons, who Thibodeau was apparently insisting on from the Sixers. Simmons would be a much better get than DeRozan and the Wolves should expect to get significantly less because Butler isn't as young or as good as Kawhi's.

2. The Spurs doing a "win now" deal for DeRozan made sense for them given where the team finished last season without Kawhi and given where their other top player, Aldridge, is in his career. The Wolves are in a much different position. Even though the guy we're trading played the majority of our games last season, this Wolves finished behind the Spurs and barely captured the 8th seed. Moreover, our other top player, KAT, is still 22 years old and far from entering his prime. So for the Wolves, it makes far more sense to use the Butler trade to bring in young talent with upside and draft picks.

Like everything, the Butler saga will be judged with hindsight down he road. But the bottom line is that we can get a sense of Butler's market value by looking at what the Wolves gave up for him and discounting that based on the circumstances that would tend to decrease his market value compared to last summer's situation with the Bulls. Then we can look at what the Spurs got for Kawhi and discount that based on the differences between Kawhi and Butler in age and overall caliber of player. Finally, we can look at the offers reportedly made and rejected by other teams. Put it all together and we should know we're not going to get an allstar in his prime like DeRozan back. And I'd argue we shouldn't given the youth and developmental stage of our top existing talent - Towns, maybe Wiggins and now Okogie.

As I've mentioned many times, waiting is like gambling. Things could happen that enhance his value with a team or two. But things could also happen to further diminish his value. Butler could get hurt, which with him is a higher than average probability given his history. Teams interested in Butler now might simply move on to their plan B. Some teams might end up getting attached to current young players they might have otherwise traded for Butler. Some teams might realized they're not good enough relative to other teams in their conference to compete even with the addition of Jimmy. Furthermore, with each game, Butler's value to that team is one game less and his time to bond with the team to enhance the chances of re-signing next summer diminish. So the simply math suggests Butler's value goes down with time. The point is this - Jimmy has been on the market long enough to know his core market value. The Wolves shouldn't gamble with Butler as an asset by waiting for luck to bail them out. We need to capitalize on that asset as much as we can as soon as we can.

Meanwhile, Butler's continued presence with the team prevents the team from moving on and evaluating the roster fully in Butler's absence. We need to evaluate and build around what we have along with what we're able to get in return for Jimmy because Jimmy isn't going to stay past this season. I think just about every fan has accepted that reality. Unfortunately, I don't think Thibodeau has. It is long past time to move on from Butler.

[Monster]

I often think the take of "If a guy is making x amount of money and isn't the x player on a championship team then..." it a bit too simplistic but I think it's worth considering. Is Otto Porter (I doubt he Wizards would have a chance of resigning Butler with all their mess anyway) getting paid max money the 3rd best player on a championship team? Even though I don't think he is an option I'm not even sure Beal is. Unless Porter really improves the answer is no. Richardson (with Waiters) might not even be as good as Porter and he is still making over 20 million a year when paired with Waiters and taking up 2 roster spots. Paying a guy that isn't the answer could be problematic and that's what Kahns has been trying to say and I think that angle absolutely has merit. I'd like to make a deal...I'd like to have already made a deal but some of these deals are leaning more doing a deal to do a deal than getting something of particular real value when you consider the salary considerations.

People say we don't have the leverage of other teams in some of these situations. The Spurs (and Pacers with PG) didn't really have much leverage either. Everyone knew Kawhi wanted out. Some people are praising that deal using it against the Wolves. People forget that the Raptors also got Danny Green who has one year left on his deal but his numbers so far would basically be one of his best years of his career. Starting level wings like that are very valuable. Derozen has been very good but that's not a big surprise. Poeltl is a guy I like a lot but he has played 43 minutes so far. Obviously he could be very useful down the road possibly even this season. People absolutely rip Thibs and the Wolves for reportedly wanting pieces to win now but that's EXACTLY what the vaunted Spurs did with their deal. Kawhi is a true MVP type player when healthy so I don't expect the same return for Butler (who is a hell of a player when healthy) but often people saying we have no chance to get something pretty valueable back seems like kinda BS at some point. There is a narrative that Leonard straight up didn't play in games because he was unhappy with one of the best organizations is sports and the Raptors gave up a very good player to get him.

At this point honestly I feel like I have almost zero idea how this is going to end. Some team is going to pony up something for Butler and then the clock will start ticking on us finding out if that return was a good move or not. We may truly not know for years how to judge that return. (Remember how the Kings were grilled for Buddy being centerpiece of a Cousins trade?) Unfortunately I think there is a pretty good chance at this point it's going to take a while for something to happen. I thought the Houston 4 1st round picks would get things rolling but it doesn't seem like it has. The Wolves have looked good enough to not panic on dealing Butler. It looked like Butler was sitting out games to make a trade happen but then he played again. Time to buckle up for a while and also be ready for something to come completely out of nowhere.

Monster - A few points:

1. As you acknowledged, Butler's older than Kawhi's and not at Kawhi's level. And yet, what did the Spurs get in return? An allstar but not a superstar by any stretch in DeRozan, a very good role playe/3-point shooting specialist in Green, and a decent young prospect in Poeltl. So let's face it, the Wolves are not going to get Simmons, who Thibodeau was apparently insisting on from the Sixers. Simmons would be a much better get than DeRozan and the Wolves should expect to get significantly less because Butler isn't as young or as good as Kawhi's.

2. The Spurs doing a "win now" deal for DeRozan made sense for them given where the team finished last season without Kawhi and given where their other top player, Aldridge, is in his career. The Wolves are in a much different position. Even though the guy we're trading played the majority of our games last season, this Wolves finished behind the Spurs and barely captured the 8th seed. Moreover, our other top player, KAT, is still 22 years old and far from entering his prime. So for the Wolves, it makes far more sense to use the Butler trade to bring in young talent with upside and draft picks.

Like everything, the Butler saga will be judged with hindsight down he road. But the bottom line is that we can get a sense of Butler's market value by looking at what the Wolves gave up for him and discounting that based on the circumstances that would tend to decrease his market value compared to last summer's situation with the Bulls. Then we can look at what the Spurs got for Kawhi and discount that based on the differences between Kawhi and Butler in age and overall caliber of player. Finally, we can look at the offers reportedly made and rejected by other teams. Put it all together and we should know we're not going to get an allstar in his prime like DeRozan back. And I'd argue we shouldn't given the youth and developmental stage of our top existing talent - Towns, maybe Wiggins and now Okogie.

As I've mentioned many times, waiting is like gambling. Things could happen that enhance his value with a team or two. But things could also happen to further diminish his value. Butler could get hurt, which with him is a higher than average probability given his history. Teams interested in Butler now might simply move on to their plan B. Some teams might end up getting attached to current young players they might have otherwise traded for Butler. Some teams might realized they're not good enough relative to other teams in their conference to compete even with the addition of Jimmy. Furthermore, with each game, Butler's value to that team is one game less and his time to bond with the team to enhance the chances of re-signing next summer diminish. So the simply math suggests Butler's value goes down with time. The point is this - Jimmy has been on the market long enough to know his core market value. The Wolves shouldn't gamble with Butler as an asset by waiting for luck to bail them out. We need to capitalize on that asset as much as we can as soon as we can.

Meanwhile, Butler's continued presence with the team prevents the team from moving on and evaluating the roster fully in Butler's absence. We need to evaluate and build around what we have along with what we're able to get in return for Jimmy because Jimmy isn't going to stay past this season. I think just about every fan has accepted that reality. Unfortunately, I don't think Thibodeau has. It is long past time to move on from Butler.

One counter point on the Spurs deal. Are you telling me that Derozen and Aldridge plus whatever else the Spurs have has is a contender? Most people would say no.

I think what ends up getting most lost is that fans realize Butler is gone and we end up feeling like just taking whatever we can get. It's an understandable and entirely reasonable position. I've been there in one way or another the last few weeks. Thibs might be in some sort of lala land not wanting to give up Butler at all. Nobody would be shocked if that is the case or if it was at some point and now he realizes it must be done. Based on what we know of the deals that have been out there...none of them are really no-brainer type deals when it comes to overall return or return + salary implications.

As long at Butler is healthy and yes that's a risk the Wolves are likely to get at least a first round pick at some point. Depending on a few factors some of which we don't know I might rather have an expiring contract and 1 first round pick from about any team than the Miami offer where we take Richardson and Waiters. I know we may not get a player of Richardson's caliber with the space (even just using exemptions) we would have over that time but we would have 2 roster spots to try out players. Look at Miami they have multiple guys on their roster they used similar amounts of money to acquire. Sure we might not hit on one of those guys but roster spots AND opportunity do have value. Plus if Miami sucks we have their 2nd round pick which would be pretty valuable.

Now don't think I have lost it...I don't think we are gonna get just a first round pick for Butler but I can see the point of waiting to get something better as time goes on. If we know one thing about Thibs and Layden is they will wait as long as they see fit to get what they want. They waited to trade Rubio. They waiting out Bazz till he came back (ended up being a failure). They waited Bazz out till he gave up his player option to leave. They may end up waiting too long with this Butler thing but their ability to have patience (and Glen as well) could pay off for a deal that actually is more favorable to this franchise in building down the road especially if it keeps us from having bad money tied up in guys that are essentially dead weight.

One positive of Butler sitting out some games is that we get to see some other players step up into roles and get some development time. It's not idea but I also think sometimes young players thrown into bigtime minutes and role can be too much for them and it can be a negative. That a subjective opinion. As a Thibs defender I didn't really think he was the right guy for the roster. I'm still skeptical of that but we have seen this team become MUCH more modern in a few ways so far this season than I think any of us would have expected. Injuries and Butler's situation has created reasons for him to have to play guys but he has thrown guys in there. It's also very encouraging that Dieng is playing very well (he is having a career best in terms of total productivity at this point) and that was one of the reasons this team wasn't as good as it could have been last year. Thibs and the roster has done enough to this point to keep me thinking he should get some more time to see what he can do. It's not like this team is 1-7 or 2-6 etc AND its had guys put from injury and the whole Butler thing. I'm looking forward to the next stretch of games more than expected and possibly more than I should but I kinda like how we have been able to see Okogie show what he can do and Tyus if he can stay healthy is gonna get some opportunities the next couple games.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

6ers looking rough right now. The badly need another shot creator.

Fultz is horrible.