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Re: Draft prospects - Who do we want?

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:26 pm
by TRKO [enjin:12664595]
Q12543 wrote:I've become more and more convinced that KAT is going #1 no matter what. Perhaps only Philly, if they get the #1 pick, would be willing to trade out of it.

I was looking at his numbers vs. Davis and they aren't too dissimilar:

Stat - AD vs. Towns
Points per 40 minutes - 17.7 vs. 19.5
Rebounds per 40 minutes - 13 vs. 12.7
Assists per 40 minutes - 1.6 vs. 2.1
Blocks per 40 minutes - 5.8 vs. 4.3
TS% - .654 vs. .627

The big difference at the NBA level is that Davis is a PF with a killer combination of length and athleticism. Towns isn't necessarily a physical freak compared to other NBA Centers. So I don't necessarily see things translating to the same degree as they did for Davis. But still, he has an impressively strong all-around game.

Stats are one thing, but Davis was on a different level in college. Guy was dominating. Towns had his moments, but the eye test says he isn't Anthonh Davis. There is no shame in that however.

I also feel Towns has the top pick locked up. Even if Philadelphia gets the top pick it will be traded and a team will pick Towns or they will trade Embiid or Noel.

Re: Draft prospects - Who do we want?

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:35 pm
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
I don't know if Davis was dominating in college. He was still a little raw offensively, as 17.7 points per 40 minutes isn't that big of a deal. His assist rate was pretty low too. He was certainly a menace defensively.

Frankly, Kentucky loads up with so much talent it's almost impossible for one guy to dominate. Towns would have played a lot more minutes if there weren't a gazillion other 7-footers on the team. Davis was the only real big-man on that team, but he was flanked by MKG and Terence Jones. Jeebus!

Re: Draft prospects - Who do we want?

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:41 pm
by TRKO [enjin:12664595]
Q12543 wrote:I don't know if Davis was dominating in college. He was still a little raw offensively, as 17.7 points per 40 minutes isn't that big of a deal. His assist rate was pretty low too. He was certainly a menace defensively.

Frankly, Kentucky loads up with so much talent it's almost impossible for one guy to dominate. Towns would have played a lot more minutes if there weren't a gazillion other 7-footers on the team. Davis was the only real big-man on that team, but he was flanked by MKG and Terence Jones. Jeebus!

Not by the numbers per say, but his play on the court. The eye test.

Re: Draft prospects - Who do we want?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:24 pm
by bleedspeed
Eye test for me didn't scream dominate for either Towns or Okafor honestly. I think we will see Okafor transform his body and continue to get in better shape and develop other parts of his game just like Love did. I didn't see dominate in Winslow either. I did see it in Russell. I think Mudiay has it.

Re: Draft prospects - Who do we want?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:24 pm
by TRKO [enjin:12664595]
bleedspeed177 wrote:Eye test for me didn't scream dominate for either Towns or Okafor honestly. I think we will see Okafor transform his body and continue to get in better shape and develop other parts of his game just like Love did. I didn't see dominate in Winslow either. I did see it in Russell. I think Mudiay has it.

Yes I've seen it out of Russell. That being said he didn't have the caliber of teammates Okafor and Towns had. In order for Ohio State to do well Russell had to dominate.

Re: Draft prospects - Who do we want?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:15 pm
by bleedspeed
I think if Mudiay had gone to SMU he would be the top pick. I think he lost a fair amount of development going to China.

Re: Draft prospects - Who do we want?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:45 pm
by TRKO [enjin:12664595]
Video time:
Jahlil Okafor:
http://youtu.be/wNgjYxttRL0

Emmanuel Mudiay:
http://youtu.be/HQgaOMROcd8

D'Angelo Russell:
http://youtu.be/IEgMvIQ4uw8

Re: Draft prospects - Who do we want?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:58 pm
by TheFuture
TRKO wrote:Video time:
Jahlil Okafor:
http://youtu.be/wNgjYxttRL0

Emmanuel Mudiay:
http://youtu.be/HQgaOMROcd8

D'Angelo Russell:
http://youtu.be/IEgMvIQ4uw8


Hah, that's quite the coincidence. I was just watching those and many others.

I've been watching a ton of film on the top 8 guys the last few weeks, so my order is switching up a bit again. Towns is still my favorite, but there is quite a change up for me after him. There is too much talk about not picking a PG because we have Rubio, but I think an insurance policy for Rubio may be our 2nd best option after Towns. We all talk about how great an effect Rubio has on our team's overall play, yet he hasn't shown the ability to stay on the floor long enough for him to really help us. Having a PG to lean on behind him who can also make our team go would mean there wouldn't be such a huge hiccup in overall team play. I think a competent backup/possible eventual successor at the PG position could be just as valuable to this team as a big man. With that said, I began watching as much as I could on Mudiay and Russell.

On one hand - Emmanuel Mudiay
Mudiay has potential but I don't think it's as great as I once thought, or that many "draft experts" say it is. He looks very athletic, if you compare him to Russell, but he's not in that upper tier of athletes. They say he's very quick, great first step, explosive athlete, but I don't see him blow by anyone really. He's not on a level of wall, rose, westbrook, lavine, etc. That being said, I don't think his upside is of a #1 pick. He's obviously not a great shooter, his form is downright ugly. His decision making is average as well, leading to him being turnover prone. His ability to dribble and penetrate into any defense is superb. He can go right and left with no difference, and once he gets near the rim he finishes or gets to the line. One issue is that he tries to do too much at times once he's there. Yes, sometimes it makes you ooh and ahh, but other times he commits a stupid turnover where there was a very easy assist. On offense, he's a more athletic Rubio who has a good ability to draw fouls and finish at the rim, but with a much lower bball IQ.

His defense is very suspect. He has some tools, but I question his IQ and lateral agility on this end of the court as well. He gets faked out often, and seems to have a lazy streak. He often pays way too much attention to the ball, and allows his man to cut behind him for an easy basket. The fact that he has the tools to be a good defender, but he doesn't utilize them, bothers me. He doesn't even go after rebounds. That is a red flag.

Overall, he may turn out to be a great player, but he is very raw. Rubio would be a great mentor, but I don't see him being the best student. He seems to believe he is better than he really is. Too big of a risk for this team in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwU6qqxGVjMMudiayvsBeijing/Marbury

On the other hand - D'angelo Russell
There is something about Russell that makes you want him on your team. He's not very athletic, but he knows how to position himself and leverage the athleticism he does have. His lack of athleticism is what leads to his mature feel for the game. Without being able to rely solely on physical attributes, he has had to develop every other facet of his game. Russell is a leader, and he's calm doing it.

On offense, he can get his shot of whenever and wherever he wants. His release is very quick, reminiscent of Curry, I can't get over it. He needs a split second, a move to get a defender off balance, and the ball is out of his hands. If you look at Russell's and Curry's freshman stats, they are rather similar. His dribble drive is good, but he goes to his left much too often. Something he will need to fix at the next level, and while he's at it he will need to work on finishing at the rim with his right as well. He has a very nice floater, but will not finish at the rim extremely well in the NBA. Unlike mudiay, that won't be as necessary, as he definitely has the ability to shoot lights out. Russell's passing ability may be more advanced than his shooting. His bball IQ is off the charts. He sees things developing just like Rubio, and can make the similar passes, on target, with surgical precision. There is a little flash, but mostly the oohs and ahhs come via that superb execution. With Russell you are getting outstanding shooting, with Rubio like IQ/Passing. That is very impressive, and hard to pass on.

His defense is not great, but he does rebound. He's not lazy, or unwilling to defend, he just is not a great athlete and his upside as a defender is likely above average, maybe just maybe good. There definitely is an argument that he expended so much energy on offense to carry his team, that he didn't exert as much on defense, but for now, I will go off of what I saw rather than that speculation. I can live with him trying, and simply not being outstanding, especially if he goes after rebounds. At least that is ending possessions. I also do think he will be a smart nba defender, positioning himself well, leveraging on pick/rolls, but he will have to add weight to be successful. He is a student of the game, and I have no reason to believe that it will not translate to the defensive sets/playbook at the next level.

Overall, I think he is going to be the next sub-par athlete star. The level of poise he has is years ahead, and that seems to translate very well to the next level. He may struggle with the physicality to begin with, but all players do, and the one thing that benefits him is his quick-fire release and shooting ability. He won't have to dance so much in the lane. His knowledge of spacing and footwork will allow him to get his offense ala Curry and Harden. I'm not saying he will be as good as them, but there is definitely a similarity with those players in terms of offensive IQ.

For this team, i'd take Russell as high as #2, assuming Towns is gone. He can be backup PG, he can take over if Rubio is injured which is being completely undervalued, and he can also play off Rubio as a 2 guard. He can shoot the 3. All things we desperately need. I have no problems with a 3 guard rotation of Rubio, Russell, and LaVine going forward, 4 if Wiggins gets some minutes there as well.

Before you rail me on the idea of taking him over Okafor, let me just say this. Okafor is a great player, but i don't think he is a great fit here. Pekovic is a lane clog type. That hasn't led to wins. Okafor can likely play fine man to man defense, like Pekovic, but we need help defense. We also don't have the 3 point shooting that would be devastating with a player like Okafor. Okafor will require set plays where he touches the ball each time down the court. I don't see that being our style moving forward, or at least I don't hope it is. I want Rubio, LaVine, and Wiggins to create offense, and a player who can play off of them. I don't see Okafor being that player. Towns can definitely do that, and develop a devastating pick and roll/pop game with all 3, and Russell can either create offense himself or play off of any of those guys. Right now, a lot of our game is driving to the basket with LaVine, Wiggins, and Rubio. We need help with spacing from new players, and Okafor just helps make a lane congested. Towns can pull that big defender out, and Russell can hit any kickouts.

Next up is a Hezonja, Winslow, Johnson write-up!

Re: Draft prospects - Who do we want?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:02 pm
by TRKO [enjin:12664595]
People talk about the three ball a lot around here, Russell is the guy who can hit threes. He has great vision and passing ability. Partner him with Wiggins and LaVine and you got a great trio. Your front court would be garbage still. I think Russell is the best player in this draft. I'm hoping for Okafor or Towns though. I think Towns is the guy Flip is shooting for.

Re: Draft prospects - Who do we want?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:28 pm
by bleedspeed
TRKO wrote:People talk about the three ball a lot around here, Russell is the guy who can hit threes. He has great vision and passing ability. Partner him with Wiggins and LaVine and you got a great trio. Your front court would be garbage still. I think Russell is the best player in this draft. I'm hoping for Okafor or Towns though. I think Towns is the guy Flip is shooting for.


That would make us to much like Golden State. Russell is still my first pick.