Draft prospects - Who do we want?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

We'd have to revolve the offense 100% around Okafor, though. Post entry's every possession (because he's awkward in P&R game) and we still don't have enough shooters to beat double teams. Also makes the pace of play very methodical.

We can get points from the post from Karl as well as everything else he provides.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Okafor's college efficiency in the post is among the best ever and not just for freshman. Plus is has good vision similar to Shaq and Olajuwon. I don't see Al Jefferson there. Low post sets can be extremely efficient if the post player can pass and score at High Efficiency. All of those 90s centers knew how to move the ball and that was why you could run an offense through them and basically why the new generation of bigs (Apart from duncan) just haven't had the same impact. This is such an opportune time to exploit the low post. Those 90s centers would dominate in today's NBA, especially with the fouls they call now.

Doper, I'm not so sure. I'm really on the fence with this issue. I agree that Okafor put up historically great numbers and could be a low-post savant in the NBA.

On the other hand, having a low post Center keeps the opposing Center in the paint, which means it clogs up slashing and dribble-drive opportunities. And in today's NBA, there a lot of really good defensive Centers whose impact is most felt near the hoop: Gobert, Gasol, Hibbert, Jordan, Howard, Chandler, etc.

If you really want to counter this trend of the big, defensive Center making things difficult near the rim, you go find or develop yourself a stretch 5 that can pull these big SOBs out of the paint and totally negate their over-sized impact on defense. Okafor can't do that (and neither can WCS by the way).

[Monster]

One significant reason why the low post game is not as important is the hands off guarding of guy on the perimeter compared to the 90's. This COULD have SOME effect as to why there are so many talented PGs in the league right now. Perimeter defense is very different and that leads to a different game being played. There are a huge number of factors that make this a really interesting conversation.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

We'd have to revolve the offense 100% around Okafor, though. Post entry's every possession (because he's awkward in P&R game) and we still don't have enough shooters to beat double teams. Also makes the pace of play very methodical.

We can get points from the post from Karl as well as everything else he provides.

I think this is a bit extreme. He doesn't need the ball every possession to be effective on the court. His high efficiency scoring the ball actually lets you go to other options more than a Towns because he's going to score more on less shots. He's also 19 so criticizing his PnR game is a bit extreme at this juncture as well. Towns is no better and they both didn't play in real PnR games in college. Okafor used the pick to get post position and Towns never really rolled to the basket because his screens were used to get their guards driving lanes to the bucket and lobs to WCS who was already down low. We already have guys like Lavine who are 1 man fast breaks. We need a half-court offense more than a transition offense. Having a post threat who can command doubles will open up the rest of the offense for cutters and, as long as guys move to the right spots in general, open shots. If the Cavs, Clippers, Mavericks, Warriors etc. can all make due with C's who have no range I think we'll be fine if we end up with Okafor.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

You act like Towns won't command double teams in his own right. He's a highly-skilled big with the versatility to beat teams in different ways; do not underrate that. And Towns didn't play a whole lot of P&R because the Harrison twins are albatross at running offense. Kentucky would set a high screen with Towns, get the switch, Towns posts up in left/right box and waits for the ball to come to him. Super basic sets. I'd say 85% of the time he was creating his own offense just as Okafor did (Jah more efficient).

We have the means to be a very good transition team. Rubio, Wiggins, LaVine. Why not continue in that mold with the mobile Towns? And it's not just sprinting on offense, it's getting back on defense, something Jah struggles with.

We'll be HAPPY with either of the two, because they're both good players, but if we're comparing one to another, Towns is the guy.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I don't see Towns as a guy commanding doubles. He's not exactly a versatile post player. He mostly just spun to the inside. In the pros that is the move they take away first. I think his post game is highly overrated because it conveniently only showed up against very weak or short defenders. I'm just not going to give him credit for things he just hasn't shown to this point. You're more than welcome to, but he just was not a versatile scorer in college and if your not versatile you better be efficient which he was pretty run of the mill in that category given his size advantage. If you want to argue Towns is the guy because of his defense and rebounding fine, but when comparing the two the offense is significantly in Okafor's favor.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Personally I think the reason we have seen teams go away from dumping it down in the post is due to the fact that there aren't too many great post players. This isn't the 90's where guys like Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, and Shaq played. I think great talent wins over style every time. A great post player can open things up for teams just as good as anything else.

I agree, although I read an article on Canis Hoopus today that was pretty enlightening. The premise of the article was to make a case for drafting Willie Cauley-Stein as high as #2. As part of the argument of taking WCS over Okafor, some numbers were rattled off about the efficiency (or lack thereof) of low post possessions.

The bottom line is that isolation low-post sets aren't very efficient. Not only does it stagnate the rest of the offense, but it more often than not leads to a missed shot or turnover. This reminds me of how Saunders over-used Pekovic in the low post. Pek's at his best when on the move, either as the roller in the pick and roll game or in secondary opportunities where he's quickly sealing someone off for a quick layup or getting a putback rebound. He's simply not that effective of an iso-post player that you pound the ball to time and again.

Now some low-post players are truly virtuosos: McHale, Hakeem, Shaq...Guys who are so efficient and draw so much attention, it makes sense to make them a focal point of your offense. The question is whether Okafor can be this good.

(by the way Al Jefferson is NOT one of these people. While he has a slick repertoire of low post moves, he very rarely draws fouls or gets looks right at the rim. As a result, he's never been that efficient and it makes it difficult to build an offense around him).

Q, you raise a good point about the limited ways that Pek is effective scoring, and it's an area that perhaps we haven't ripped Flip enough. Too often the offense was designed to get the ball into Pek, but too far away from the basket in an iso situation he isn't comfortable with. And the results were generally predictably bad. Pek can be an efficient scorer, but not when he is given the ball when he is stationary more than 5 feet from the basket. By the way, I hold Rubio accountable somewhat for this also. A point guard needs to get the ball to his teammates where they are most effective, and Ricky often falls short here with respect to Pek.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Personally I think the reason we have seen teams go away from dumping it down in the post is due to the fact that there aren't too many great post players. This isn't the 90's where guys like Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, and Shaq played. I think great talent wins over style every time. A great post player can open things up for teams just as good as anything else.

I agree, although I read an article on Canis Hoopus today that was pretty enlightening. The premise of the article was to make a case for drafting Willie Cauley-Stein as high as #2. As part of the argument of taking WCS over Okafor, some numbers were rattled off about the efficiency (or lack thereof) of low post possessions.

The bottom line is that isolation low-post sets aren't very efficient. Not only does it stagnate the rest of the offense, but it more often than not leads to a missed shot or turnover. This reminds me of how Saunders over-used Pekovic in the low post. Pek's at his best when on the move, either as the roller in the pick and roll game or in secondary opportunities where he's quickly sealing someone off for a quick layup or getting a putback rebound. He's simply not that effective of an iso-post player that you pound the ball to time and again.

Now some low-post players are truly virtuosos: McHale, Hakeem, Shaq...Guys who are so efficient and draw so much attention, it makes sense to make them a focal point of your offense. The question is whether Okafor can be this good.

(by the way Al Jefferson is NOT one of these people. While he has a slick repertoire of low post moves, he very rarely draws fouls or gets looks right at the rim. As a result, he's never been that efficient and it makes it difficult to build an offense around him).

Q, you raise a good point about the limited ways that Pek is effective scoring, and it's an area that perhaps we haven't ripped Flip enough. Too often the offense was designed to get the ball into Pek, but too far away from the basket in an iso situation he isn't comfortable with. And the results were generally predictably bad. Pek can be an efficient scorer, but not when he is given the ball when he is stationary more than 5 feet from the basket. By the way, I hold Rubio accountable somewhat for this also. A point guard needs to get the ball to his teammates where they are most effective, and Ricky often falls short here with respect to Pek.

Pek is going through Dwight syndrome. He's just not a good post player, but he is very good as the roll man in the PnR. However, he's getting more touches in the post than as a roll man. Pek's problems in the post stem a lot from his short arms. He's easily bothered by length when he posts up. Him losing weight would not only help him stay on the court more, but it would all him to create more separation on his post moves using speed because right now he just tries to bully for position to get the shot off without moving enough to actually create separation on the move. He needs to get his moves off quicker.

[Monster]

Personally I think the reason we have seen teams go away from dumping it down in the post is due to the fact that there aren't too many great post players. This isn't the 90's where guys like Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, and Shaq played. I think great talent wins over style every time. A great post player can open things up for teams just as good as anything else.

I agree, although I read an article on Canis Hoopus today that was pretty enlightening. The premise of the article was to make a case for drafting Willie Cauley-Stein as high as #2. As part of the argument of taking WCS over Okafor, some numbers were rattled off about the efficiency (or lack thereof) of low post possessions.

The bottom line is that isolation low-post sets aren't very efficient. Not only does it stagnate the rest of the offense, but it more often than not leads to a missed shot or turnover. This reminds me of how Saunders over-used Pekovic in the low post. Pek's at his best when on the move, either as the roller in the pick and roll game or in secondary opportunities where he's quickly sealing someone off for a quick layup or getting a putback rebound. He's simply not that effective of an iso-post player that you pound the ball to time and again.

Now some low-post players are truly virtuosos: McHale, Hakeem, Shaq...Guys who are so efficient and draw so much attention, it makes sense to make them a focal point of your offense. The question is whether Okafor can be this good.

(by the way Al Jefferson is NOT one of these people. While he has a slick repertoire of low post moves, he very rarely draws fouls or gets looks right at the rim. As a result, he's never been that efficient and it makes it difficult to build an offense around him).

Q, you raise a good point about the limited ways that Pek is effective scoring, and it's an area that perhaps we haven't ripped Flip enough. Too often the offense was designed to get the ball into Pek, but too far away from the basket in an iso situation he isn't comfortable with. And the results were generally predictably bad. Pek can be an efficient scorer, but not when he is given the ball when he is stationary more than 5 feet from the basket. By the way, I hold Rubio accountable somewhat for this also. A point guard needs to get the ball to his teammates where they are most effective, and Ricky often falls short here with respect to Pek.

Pek is going through Dwight syndrome. He's just not a good post player, but he is very good as the roll man in the PnR. However, he's getting more touches in the post than as a roll man. Pek's problems in the post stem a lot from his short arms. He's easily bothered by length when he posts up. Him losing weight would not only help him stay on the court more, but it would all him to create more separation on his post moves using speed because right now he just tries to bully for position to get the shot off without moving enough to actually create separation on the move. He needs to get his moves off quicker.

For whatever reason it didn't seem like Pek was as deep in his post up as he was in the past. Was that the offense his teammates or maybe that ankle was bothering him a lot keeping him from being his usual physical self? Probably a combo. Pek isn't a go to post scorer he is a guy that does his thing either rolling to the hoop, burying a guy deep and then finishing or just finding good spot to be whe tempted are driving for finishes. Pek was still reasonably effective but he didn't seem quite the same player this ear for whatever reason scoring the ball in the few games I saw him play in.

[TRKO [enjin:12664595]]

If teams go to smaller more athletic Cs, it makes Okafor a matchup nightmare for them. He is too big and strong for undersized guys. So if teams follow a trend, it may be smart to be different because it makes you harder to defend. On the flip side Okafor needs to improve his defensive intensity or he will be a major liability at the other end.