It's time to move on from DLO....

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

2017-18: 47-35 ~ Jimmy Butler ~

2018-19: 36-46 ~ TimberBulls continued post-Butler ~

2019-20: 19-45 ~ D'Angelo Russell traded to Minnesota on February 7th ~

2020-21: 23-49 ~ Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell miss 52 games combined (36-percent of possible games) ~

2021-22: 46-36 ~ Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell lead Minnesota to the 7th-seed and play-in victory ~

Loser: "The wolves were a 38 win team last year..."

Oof. Fabrication is a weird way to form an argument, but when you're unable to do so with facts and supporting context this is what you have to resort to. Very much on brand. You have to love it.

Dude, you just made my argument for me by posting the 20-21 and 21-22 lines. Did you really think we were a 23 win team (or whatever that equals over 82 games) in 20-21? Assuming not, you would logically have to admit that we weren't a legit 46 win team last year. I'll admit 38 might be a bit low, but 40 is probably about right.

[Monster]

I think DLo is worth 20-25 per, which in my mind means anything up to 30 would be tradeable moving forward. If we lock Dlo into a nice deal moving forward, I think that would increase his trade value. If we overpay it would be a negative asset imo. This initial negotiation is big for Connelly any way you look at it.

You're all sick lol. You think he's worth 20-25, so 30 would be tradeable... ok that makes no sense. He's worth 12-14/year and that's IF he accepts a role as a 6th man.

Also, I'm so tired of hearing about how he was a key piece to a 46 win team... the wolves were a 38 win team last year that played in a weak conference that was absolutely hammered by injuries. As currently constructed and assuming all teams have equal health next year I don't think this teams sniffs 46 wins again. It's like saying he was a key piece of a 46 win team is the new version of saying he was an all star back when he was an injury replacement in a weak conference.

That is such a ludicrous take, so you can just take away 8 wins because you want to??? That is ludicrous. Injuries happen, the key is hopefully staying away from them. There will be huge injuries again next year and we got to hope they don't effect the wolves to much.

At the end of the day here is what we know the wolves are 52-36 lifetime when Dlo and Kat play together over 3 seasons and 11-26 when Kat plays and Dlo doesn't.

Dlo and Kat lineups were a +7.6 this year 89th percentile of all NBA lineups. Dlo, Kat and Ant lineups were a +9 this year 90th percentile. So our big 3 played really damn good together this year.

Dlo took a step back in efficiency this year but made strides in playmaking, defense and leadership (obviously the leadership is a personal opinion) now does Dlo efficiency return to years past or is his effort on those other aspects of his game effecting his efficiency.

Dlo was a main reason the wolves won the play in game but he sucked in the playoffs. Is that just small sample size or a thing for years to come. That is something Tim Connelly to figure out.

Me personally I think Dlo is in general inconsistent, who is a solid #3 options who has been clutch in his career but the wolves might need to improve on. There hasn't been a single trade I've seen on this board in my opinion that raises the wolves ceiling. At the end of the day it comes down to money because Dlo isn't a negative player. Also if the wolves move on from Dlo what player of players help jump the wolves up a tier.

Also if you don't think the wolves can't snif 46 wins again you have no faith in Ant, Kat or mcdaniels so they should blow it up because Dlo isn't holding those players back

Do you think we win the play in game if the clippers have their best player? We had our best players available for that game. We had good health from our important players all year. If kat would have been hurt all year and we win 30 games, this board would have been saying that we're not a 30 win team... but when teams like Denver, the clippers and the lakers (to name a few) are missing their top guys, I don't hear anyone saying that our record is inflated. Where's the objectivity? Yeah, unfortunately, as constructed this is probably a 41 win team next year, even with some progression from ant, and jaden (if you assume all teams have their guys healthy). The reason a lot of you don't see any upgrades over Dlo is because I honestly think your view of Dlo is a bit delusional. If you viewed him correctly, I think you'd start seeing quite a few upgrade scenarios. Time will tell. Heck, time already told in the playoffs, but some of you don't want to see it.

Maybe I missed it but have you said the upgrades you see over Russell?

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

At the end of the day here is what we know the wolves are 52-36 lifetime when Dlo and Kat play together

This is the DLO haters' blind spot and what they rarely acknowledge or just can't bring themselves to admit. The Wolves have been a damn good team when DLO and KAT play together and quite terrible when DLO doesn't play. And that's a big sample size over multiple seasons.

Now go back and look at KAT/Wiggins or KAT/LaVine playing together. Total train wreck.

My thesis on DLO is that he's a guy that can help you get from bad to good, but not necessarily from good to great. It's more of a long-term fit issue for me. I think Ant ultimately needs a different kind of PG next to him.

I actually like some of this post, except I would probably change it from bad to decent. One season where everything breaks right and you win 46 games, does not all of a sudden make you a "good team". I think a good team finds a way to win that series.

Also, I don't think it's fair to compare Lavine when he was here to Dlo now. Lavine is clearly the better player now. If Dlo would have been here back then I think he would have been a train wreck also

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

I think DLo is worth 20-25 per, which in my mind means anything up to 30 would be tradeable moving forward. If we lock Dlo into a nice deal moving forward, I think that would increase his trade value. If we overpay it would be a negative asset imo. This initial negotiation is big for Connelly any way you look at it.

You're all sick lol. You think he's worth 20-25, so 30 would be tradeable... ok that makes no sense. He's worth 12-14/year and that's IF he accepts a role as a 6th man.

Also, I'm so tired of hearing about how he was a key piece to a 46 win team... the wolves were a 38 win team last year that played in a weak conference that was absolutely hammered by injuries. As currently constructed and assuming all teams have equal health next year I don't think this teams sniffs 46 wins again. It's like saying he was a key piece of a 46 win team is the new version of saying he was an all star back when he was an injury replacement in a weak conference.

That is such a ludicrous take, so you can just take away 8 wins because you want to??? That is ludicrous. Injuries happen, the key is hopefully staying away from them. There will be huge injuries again next year and we got to hope they don't effect the wolves to much.

At the end of the day here is what we know the wolves are 52-36 lifetime when Dlo and Kat play together over 3 seasons and 11-26 when Kat plays and Dlo doesn't.

Dlo and Kat lineups were a +7.6 this year 89th percentile of all NBA lineups. Dlo, Kat and Ant lineups were a +9 this year 90th percentile. So our big 3 played really damn good together this year.

Dlo took a step back in efficiency this year but made strides in playmaking, defense and leadership (obviously the leadership is a personal opinion) now does Dlo efficiency return to years past or is his effort on those other aspects of his game effecting his efficiency.

Dlo was a main reason the wolves won the play in game but he sucked in the playoffs. Is that just small sample size or a thing for years to come. That is something Tim Connelly to figure out.

Me personally I think Dlo is in general inconsistent, who is a solid #3 options who has been clutch in his career but the wolves might need to improve on. There hasn't been a single trade I've seen on this board in my opinion that raises the wolves ceiling. At the end of the day it comes down to money because Dlo isn't a negative player. Also if the wolves move on from Dlo what player of players help jump the wolves up a tier.

Also if you don't think the wolves can't snif 46 wins again you have no faith in Ant, Kat or mcdaniels so they should blow it up because Dlo isn't holding those players back

Do you think we win the play in game if the clippers have their best player? We had our best players available for that game. We had good health from our important players all year. If kat would have been hurt all year and we win 30 games, this board would have been saying that we're not a 30 win team... but when teams like Denver, the clippers and the lakers (to name a few) are missing their top guys, I don't hear anyone saying that our record is inflated. Where's the objectivity? Yeah, unfortunately, as constructed this is probably a 41 win team next year, even with some progression from ant, and jaden (if you assume all teams have their guys healthy). The reason a lot of you don't see any upgrades over Dlo is because I honestly think your view of Dlo is a bit delusional. If you viewed him correctly, I think you'd start seeing quite a few upgrade scenarios. Time will tell. Heck, time already told in the playoffs, but some of you don't want to see it.

Maybe I missed it but have you said the upgrades you see over Russell?

Yep, you missed it. Once you get me that list of every players availability, I'll be sure to get right on making my list of specific upgrades.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I was unaware of the cap issues and thought he just cost MN assets by going to GSW, that actually makes more sense then why he choose to just go get his money and join an offensive juggernaut. How much do you think a solid rotation player like Beasley or T. Prince will make in next 1-3 years? I think DLO should get about a 25-33% bump above that range. Do you think he is worth max money?

That's fair and I appreciate the honesty. It's not difficult to come to that conclusion so I get it, but it was definitely more complex than D'Angelo Russell's free agent decision.

I think Malik Beasley and Taurean Prince are mid-level type players, or somewhere around $10-million annually given the current cap. They're solid rotation players on competitive teams and spot-starters at best. Beasley was paid favorably as a starter, which is why we quickly saw him go from a value deal to overpaid, albeit slightly.

I've maintained that Russell shouldn't be paid max money moving forward. That has always been agreed upon here. However, we need to be realistic when we discuss what he actually is worth and how much of the cap should be allotted for him. I continue to think $20-25 million annually is appropriate for Russell, especially when you compare him to similarly-paid guards such as Malcolm Brogdon, Mike Conley Jr., Fred VanVleet, Lonzo Ball, Kyle Lowry, and Spencer Dinwiddie. Those are reference points. They have essentially set the market for Russell and other point guards below the top tier.

[Monster]

I think DLo is worth 20-25 per, which in my mind means anything up to 30 would be tradeable moving forward. If we lock Dlo into a nice deal moving forward, I think that would increase his trade value. If we overpay it would be a negative asset imo. This initial negotiation is big for Connelly any way you look at it.

You're all sick lol. You think he's worth 20-25, so 30 would be tradeable... ok that makes no sense. He's worth 12-14/year and that's IF he accepts a role as a 6th man.

Also, I'm so tired of hearing about how he was a key piece to a 46 win team... the wolves were a 38 win team last year that played in a weak conference that was absolutely hammered by injuries. As currently constructed and assuming all teams have equal health next year I don't think this teams sniffs 46 wins again. It's like saying he was a key piece of a 46 win team is the new version of saying he was an all star back when he was an injury replacement in a weak conference.

That is such a ludicrous take, so you can just take away 8 wins because you want to??? That is ludicrous. Injuries happen, the key is hopefully staying away from them. There will be huge injuries again next year and we got to hope they don't effect the wolves to much.

At the end of the day here is what we know the wolves are 52-36 lifetime when Dlo and Kat play together over 3 seasons and 11-26 when Kat plays and Dlo doesn't.

Dlo and Kat lineups were a +7.6 this year 89th percentile of all NBA lineups. Dlo, Kat and Ant lineups were a +9 this year 90th percentile. So our big 3 played really damn good together this year.

Dlo took a step back in efficiency this year but made strides in playmaking, defense and leadership (obviously the leadership is a personal opinion) now does Dlo efficiency return to years past or is his effort on those other aspects of his game effecting his efficiency.

Dlo was a main reason the wolves won the play in game but he sucked in the playoffs. Is that just small sample size or a thing for years to come. That is something Tim Connelly to figure out.

Me personally I think Dlo is in general inconsistent, who is a solid #3 options who has been clutch in his career but the wolves might need to improve on. There hasn't been a single trade I've seen on this board in my opinion that raises the wolves ceiling. At the end of the day it comes down to money because Dlo isn't a negative player. Also if the wolves move on from Dlo what player of players help jump the wolves up a tier.

Also if you don't think the wolves can't snif 46 wins again you have no faith in Ant, Kat or mcdaniels so they should blow it up because Dlo isn't holding those players back

Do you think we win the play in game if the clippers have their best player? We had our best players available for that game. We had good health from our important players all year. If kat would have been hurt all year and we win 30 games, this board would have been saying that we're not a 30 win team... but when teams like Denver, the clippers and the lakers (to name a few) are missing their top guys, I don't hear anyone saying that our record is inflated. Where's the objectivity? Yeah, unfortunately, as constructed this is probably a 41 win team next year, even with some progression from ant, and jaden (if you assume all teams have their guys healthy). The reason a lot of you don't see any upgrades over Dlo is because I honestly think your view of Dlo is a bit delusional. If you viewed him correctly, I think you'd start seeing quite a few upgrade scenarios. Time will tell. Heck, time already told in the playoffs, but some of you don't want to see it.

Maybe I missed it but have you said the upgrades you see over Russell?

Yep, you missed it. Once you get me that list of every players availability, I'll be sure to get right on making my list of specific upgrades.

You said if people view Russell correctly and if they did then they could see quite a few upgrade scenarios. You say you view him correctly. What are they?

[Coolbreeze44]

At the end of the day here is what we know the wolves are 52-36 lifetime when Dlo and Kat play together

This is the DLO haters' blind spot and what they rarely acknowledge or just can't bring themselves to admit. The Wolves have been a damn good team when DLO and KAT play together and quite terrible when DLO doesn't play. And that's a big sample size over multiple seasons.

Now go back and look at KAT/Wiggins or KAT/LaVine playing together. Total train wreck.

My thesis on DLO is that he's a guy that can help you get from bad to good, but not necessarily from good to great. It's more of a long-term fit issue for me. I think Ant ultimately needs a different kind of PG next to him.

"When DLO doesn't play". Isn't that one of the big problems? Or doesn't that figure in to his value?

[kekgeek]

At the end of the day here is what we know the wolves are 52-36 lifetime when Dlo and Kat play together

This is the DLO haters' blind spot and what they rarely acknowledge or just can't bring themselves to admit. The Wolves have been a damn good team when DLO and KAT play together and quite terrible when DLO doesn't play. And that's a big sample size over multiple seasons.

Now go back and look at KAT/Wiggins or KAT/LaVine playing together. Total train wreck.

My thesis on DLO is that he's a guy that can help you get from bad to good, but not necessarily from good to great. It's more of a long-term fit issue for me. I think Ant ultimately needs a different kind of PG next to him.

"When DLO doesn't play". Isn't that one of the big problems? Or doesn't that figure in to his value?

It should play a role but Dlo missed 17 games this year, 5 due to Covid (nothing you can do there). He was relatively healthy this year and in todays NBA right or wrong only missing 12 games due to injury/rest is standard in todays nba

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Maybe I missed it but have you said the upgrades you see over Russell?

Yep, you missed it. Once you get me that list of every players availability, I'll be sure to get right on making my list of specific upgrades.

You said if people view Russell correctly and if they did then they could see quite a few upgrade scenarios. You say you view him correctly. What are they?

This is what I've been asking for through pages of this thread as well as others.

If you're set on moving forward without D'Angelo Russell, then surely there's some sort of plan. What is it? What are the options better than him and are they obtainable?

I haven't received an answer from most here who have that view and the reason, I believe, is that there just aren't (m)any better options. The alternative is taking a tangible step back while hopefully getting better elsewhere and hopefully that improvement elsewhere exceeds what we currently have with Russell. There's a lot of wishful thinking there. I see very few scenarios at the moment where we move on from Russell and get better right away. Like I've said before, I think it's too early in Minnesota's trajectory to make that significant of a pivot.

For those that feel differently, please tell me how I'm wrong here. Or is it that you're fine with getting worse so long as Russell isn't on the roster anymore? I'm genuinely interested in the responses that I'm not sure I'll actually get here.

[Coolbreeze44]

At the end of the day here is what we know the wolves are 52-36 lifetime when Dlo and Kat play together

This is the DLO haters' blind spot and what they rarely acknowledge or just can't bring themselves to admit. The Wolves have been a damn good team when DLO and KAT play together and quite terrible when DLO doesn't play. And that's a big sample size over multiple seasons.

Now go back and look at KAT/Wiggins or KAT/LaVine playing together. Total train wreck.

My thesis on DLO is that he's a guy that can help you get from bad to good, but not necessarily from good to great. It's more of a long-term fit issue for me. I think Ant ultimately needs a different kind of PG next to him.

"When DLO doesn't play". Isn't that one of the big problems? Or doesn't that figure in to his value?

It should play a role but Dlo missed 17 games this year, 5 due to Covid (nothing you can do there). He was relatively healthy this year and in todays NBA right or wrong only missing 12 games due to injury/rest is standard in todays nba

Kek, you were one of his biggest detractors down the stretch of the season. And you were being objective in doing so. One could say that DLO gave us about 2 months of very good basketball after the all star break. Other than that he was at best pedestrian, and at worst awful. Let's be real.