Its Lottery Eve

[Monster]

Thibs has mentioned numerous times that taking care of the ball is a big priority. Dunn turned the ball over alot in college. I am just making the point that Dunn being a clear cut Thibs player may not be so cut and dry.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Kahn - I agree with you about staying on the 2-way player track. That was Flip's mantra. But I'm not convinced that Hield can't be a two-way guy. Nor am I convinced that Dunn can be good enough on the offensive end at the NBA level to be considered a 2-way player. Murray strikes me as strictly a 1-way guy, but I need to see more of him.

Dunn is a long way from being someone I'd feel comfortable projecting as a starting NBA 2-guard. And draft analysts aren't projecting him an instant starter or eventual allstar. Watch Dunn's draft express videos, especially the weaknesses video. That's as a junior at the college level where, today, the top talent leaves after one or at most two years. Even on the defensive end, I'm not sure he held players he guarded to 25% shooting the way Zach LaVine did in college and look at how Zach has struggled in his defensive development in spite of having the best or second best lateral quickness time in the combine. Again, I like what I've seen in Dunn, but he isn't at the Iverson/Marbury level where he just blows you away watching him play college ball to the point where you can have a lot of confidence projecting him as a NBA starter and beyond.

The nice thing about our team is the fact that he would come off the bench for us possibly for several years to develop. There's not a guard in this draft who's gonna push Ricky and Zach for a starting spot in the next two years so you have to ask who can compliment them in the backcourt. Dunn will never be a starting 2, but can he play there next to Ricky some of the time he's on the court? Absolutely. You want to know who else is 6'4 220 and handles the 2 just fine in the NBA defensively? D Wade. Dunn isn't the flash, but he has a very similar physical profile to one of the best 2's of all time so I think he can play some time at the 2 especially against the small backcourts of the Blazers and Suns and even the Thunder with Waiters. I don't like Buddy and Murray because I don't think you can play either one next to Zach and have a functional offense and defense. There's too much catch and shoot and not enough off the dribble offense in that pairing. Dunn is the opposite. He's a defensive compliment to Zach and he was actually a PG in college so he can handle the ball and make plays for others. It's frankly not close in my opinion. Hield and Murray averaged 2 and 2.2 APG's and 1.1 and 1.0 SPG's. Dunn blows them out of the water with 6.2 APG's and a whopping 2.5 SPG's. People always say steals is one of the good translatable stats and Dunn was 4th in the nation in steals this year and last year. I'm not saying he's a future all-star or even a starter. I do however think he is much more likely to reach either of those roles than Buddy and Murray and he's a better fit with what we need with the potential if he continues to get better to push Ricky for a starting role in 3-4 years when he hits his prime. It's not sexy to pick a guy with that profile top 5, but I think it's the best move likely on the board which is all you can do.

Edit: To be fair for arguments sake, I think Dunn next to Ricky is more workable than Buddy and Murray next to Zach so while I admit Buddy and Murray are great fits next to Ricky, I think Dunn is a better two way fit next to Zach and a better fit next to Ricky than Murray and Buddy to Zach.

[Monster]

Doper - I have no problem with adding a PG who can shoot. I just wouldn't give up any significant assets to get him. Signing a shooting vet PG as a FA could make sense. Drafting Dunn could make sense as well, although his shooting is a question mark. I'm actually encouraged by the play of Tyus Jones after the all-star break. He can distribute and shoot. My only point is that PG shouldn't be our main focus for improvement.

We need more depth and we could use more 3-point shooting regardless of position. We could use more defense and rebgounding up front, especially if Pek remains unable top contribute. If replacing Ricky is high on the to-do list of our front office, we're in trouble. But by all indications, that's not what Thibs is focusing on. He identified our two primary needs: (1) improved 3-point shooting, and (2) improved defense. I would add rebounding to the list. Ricky gives us defense and rebounding from the PG position. And to the extent he has any potential for improvement as a shooter, it's on set 3-point shots.

Personally, I'd like to sign Jeremy Lin as a FA. I also like Kirk Hinrich, but I'm not sure he has any game left.

The depth in the league at PG should be considered. How hard would it be to sign a pretty good backup PG. Lin is just one of a number of talented guys that could be available.

It's obviously not that easy because we haven't had a quality backup PG since Ricky got here. I'd rather be in a situation like Atlanta where they draft a guy to be the backup who eventually started pushing Teague for the starting role. San Antonio had George Hill first and then Corey Joseph as their backups who became a starter and high level backup for their teams now. I'd rather end up with a luxury situation having to pick between Ricky and Dunn than dip into the FA pool again for an acceptable backup. I'd also rather just give Tyus a shot than sign someone if we don't draft a PG.

I disagree that the Wolves havent had quality backups. Some of the guys they had were talented enough liek Sessions and JJ but they were asked to do too much or in Sessions case he was in a system that made no sense for aplayer like him. The Atlanta scenario is a good one. My point was if you can sign a fringe starter in FA then maybe you

Kahn - I agree with you about staying on the 2-way player track. That was Flip's mantra. But I'm not convinced that Hield can't be a two-way guy. Nor am I convinced that Dunn can be good enough on the offensive end at the NBA level to be considered a 2-way player. Murray strikes me as strictly a 1-way guy, but I need to see more of him.

Dunn is a long way from being someone I'd feel comfortable projecting as a starting NBA 2-guard. And draft analysts aren't projecting him an instant starter or eventual allstar. Watch Dunn's draft express videos, especially the weaknesses video. That's as a junior at the college level where, today, the top talent leaves after one or at most two years. Even on the defensive end, I'm not sure he held players he guarded to 25% shooting the way Zach LaVine did in college and look at how Zach has struggled in his defensive development in spite of having the best or second best lateral quickness time in the combine. Again, I like what I've seen in Dunn, but he isn't at the Iverson/Marbury level where he just blows you away watching him play college ball to the point where you can have a lot of confidence projecting him as a NBA starter and beyond.

The nice thing about our team is the fact that he would come off the bench for us possibly for several years to develop. There's not a guard in this draft who's gonna push Ricky and Zach for a starting spot in the next two years so you have to ask who can compliment them in the backcourt. Dunn will never be a starting 2, but can he play there next to Ricky some of the time he's on the court? Absolutely. You want to know who else is 6'4 220 and handles the 2 just fine in the NBA defensively? D Wade. Dunn isn't the flash, but he has a very similar physical profile to one of the best 2's of all time so I think he can play some time at the 2 especially against the small backcourts of the Blazers and Suns and even the Thunder with Waiters. I don't like Buddy and Murray because I don't think you can play either one next to Zach and have a functional offense and defense. There's too much catch and shoot and not enough off the dribble offense in that pairing. Dunn is the opposite. He's a defensive compliment to Zach and he was actually a PG in college so he can handle the ball and make plays for others. It's frankly not close in my opinion. Hield and Murray averaged 2 and 2.2 APG's and 1.1 and 1.0 SPG's. Dunn blows them out of the water with 6.2 APG's and a whopping 2.5 SPG's. People always say steals is one of the good translatable stats and Dunn was 4th in the nation in steals this year and last year. I'm not saying he's a future all-star or even a starter. I do however think he is much more likely to reach either of those roles than Buddy and Murray and he's a better fit with what we need with the potential if he continues to get better to push Ricky for a starting role in 3-4 years when he hits his prime. It's not sexy to pick a guy with that profile top 5, but I think it's the best move likely on the board which is all you can do.

Edit: To be fair for arguments sake, I think Dunn next to Ricky is more workable than Buddy and Murray next to Zach so while I admit Buddy and Murray are great fits next to Ricky, I think Dunn is a better two way fit next to Zach and a better fit next to Ricky than Murray and Buddy to Zach.

It's a bit unfair to compared Dunn's assist totals to Murray who was asked to play off the ball next to one of the best college PGs in the country in Ullis. Thats all. I agree though that Dunn could be a complimentary player to the guys we have.

[Duke13]

If Dunn ends up on the Wolves, Ricky will be here a year at the most.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Doper - I have no problem with adding a PG who can shoot. I just wouldn't give up any significant assets to get him. Signing a shooting vet PG as a FA could make sense. Drafting Dunn could make sense as well, although his shooting is a question mark. I'm actually encouraged by the play of Tyus Jones after the all-star break. He can distribute and shoot. My only point is that PG shouldn't be our main focus for improvement.

We need more depth and we could use more 3-point shooting regardless of position. We could use more defense and rebgounding up front, especially if Pek remains unable top contribute. If replacing Ricky is high on the to-do list of our front office, we're in trouble. But by all indications, that's not what Thibs is focusing on. He identified our two primary needs: (1) improved 3-point shooting, and (2) improved defense. I would add rebounding to the list. Ricky gives us defense and rebounding from the PG position. And to the extent he has any potential for improvement as a shooter, it's on set 3-point shots.

Personally, I'd like to sign Jeremy Lin as a FA. I also like Kirk Hinrich, but I'm not sure he has any game left.

The depth in the league at PG should be considered. How hard would it be to sign a pretty good backup PG. Lin is just one of a number of talented guys that could be available.

It's obviously not that easy because we haven't had a quality backup PG since Ricky got here. I'd rather be in a situation like Atlanta where they draft a guy to be the backup who eventually started pushing Teague for the starting role. San Antonio had George Hill first and then Corey Joseph as their backups who became a starter and high level backup for their teams now. I'd rather end up with a luxury situation having to pick between Ricky and Dunn than dip into the FA pool again for an acceptable backup. I'd also rather just give Tyus a shot than sign someone if we don't draft a PG.

I disagree that the Wolves havent had quality backups. Some of the guys they had were talented enough liek Sessions and JJ but they were asked to do too much or in Sessions case he was in a system that made no sense for aplayer like him. The Atlanta scenario is a good one. My point was if you can sign a fringe starter in FA then maybe you

Kahn - I agree with you about staying on the 2-way player track. That was Flip's mantra. But I'm not convinced that Hield can't be a two-way guy. Nor am I convinced that Dunn can be good enough on the offensive end at the NBA level to be considered a 2-way player. Murray strikes me as strictly a 1-way guy, but I need to see more of him.

Dunn is a long way from being someone I'd feel comfortable projecting as a starting NBA 2-guard. And draft analysts aren't projecting him an instant starter or eventual allstar. Watch Dunn's draft express videos, especially the weaknesses video. That's as a junior at the college level where, today, the top talent leaves after one or at most two years. Even on the defensive end, I'm not sure he held players he guarded to 25% shooting the way Zach LaVine did in college and look at how Zach has struggled in his defensive development in spite of having the best or second best lateral quickness time in the combine. Again, I like what I've seen in Dunn, but he isn't at the Iverson/Marbury level where he just blows you away watching him play college ball to the point where you can have a lot of confidence projecting him as a NBA starter and beyond.

The nice thing about our team is the fact that he would come off the bench for us possibly for several years to develop. There's not a guard in this draft who's gonna push Ricky and Zach for a starting spot in the next two years so you have to ask who can compliment them in the backcourt. Dunn will never be a starting 2, but can he play there next to Ricky some of the time he's on the court? Absolutely. You want to know who else is 6'4 220 and handles the 2 just fine in the NBA defensively? D Wade. Dunn isn't the flash, but he has a very similar physical profile to one of the best 2's of all time so I think he can play some time at the 2 especially against the small backcourts of the Blazers and Suns and even the Thunder with Waiters. I don't like Buddy and Murray because I don't think you can play either one next to Zach and have a functional offense and defense. There's too much catch and shoot and not enough off the dribble offense in that pairing. Dunn is the opposite. He's a defensive compliment to Zach and he was actually a PG in college so he can handle the ball and make plays for others. It's frankly not close in my opinion. Hield and Murray averaged 2 and 2.2 APG's and 1.1 and 1.0 SPG's. Dunn blows them out of the water with 6.2 APG's and a whopping 2.5 SPG's. People always say steals is one of the good translatable stats and Dunn was 4th in the nation in steals this year and last year. I'm not saying he's a future all-star or even a starter. I do however think he is much more likely to reach either of those roles than Buddy and Murray and he's a better fit with what we need with the potential if he continues to get better to push Ricky for a starting role in 3-4 years when he hits his prime. It's not sexy to pick a guy with that profile top 5, but I think it's the best move likely on the board which is all you can do.

Edit: To be fair for arguments sake, I think Dunn next to Ricky is more workable than Buddy and Murray next to Zach so while I admit Buddy and Murray are great fits next to Ricky, I think Dunn is a better two way fit next to Zach and a better fit next to Ricky than Murray and Buddy to Zach.

It's a bit unfair to compared Dunn's assist totals to Murray who was asked to play off the ball next to one of the best college PGs in the country in Ullis. Thats all. I agree though that Dunn could be a complimentary player to the guys we have.

Briscoe wasn't their PG either and still had 3.1 APG's. Murray had the ball a lot. He took the most shots on the team by almost 100 shots over Ulis. My biggest thing with him potentially playing PG though is just from watching him play a couple times. I wasn't impressed with him off the dribble at all and he turned the ball over a lot for a secondary ball handler (2.2-2.3 Assist-TO ratio is not good for a guard). I think he'll be a really good off ball shooter, but question his decision making with the ball and I don't see the athleticism and intensity to hang on the defensive end at all. I think playing him as a PG at the next level is a mistake. Dunn has his own turnover issues, but I'm much more forgiving and patient with a number 1 option primary PG than the off ball shot machine.

[Phenom]

If Dunn ends up on the Wolves, Ricky will be here a year at the most.

That's insane if accurate. Dunn and Ricky would be one of the best bargains as a point guard duo in the league for the next 4 years. They both would have a major place on this team. Trading Ricky would only serve to re-create the void that the team would be filling with Dunn. Wolves need a good backup. They need options to go small and be able to throw many defenders at the elite scoring guards. They need the versatility. Maybe Dunn will overtake Ricky as the starter someday but there is no reason to jump the gun. If that is the case it means Dunn has become a great player, which is great for the team.

[Porckchop]

While Dunn isn't a great shooter he brings one thing to the table that Ricky doesn't besides defense. He dribble drives with a purpose and creates his own shot around the rim. If defenses have to respect that aspect of his game than that leaves shooters open. Very rarely do we see our wings wide open for shots. How much better can Shabazz be when he has time to set his feet and shoot?

[kekgeek]

While Dunn isn't a great shooter he brings one thing to the table that Ricky doesn't besides defense. He dribble drives with a purpose and creates his own shot around the rim. If defenses have to respect that aspect of his game than that leaves shooters open. Very rarely do we see our wings wide open for shots. How much better can Shabazz be when he has time to set his feet and shoot?

I agree Dunn will be better than Ricky finishing at the rim but it is not like other teams don't respect ricky dribble drives. The majority of Towns/gorgui shots were open pick and pop jumpers because teams have to respect a player driving to the hoop. Also ricky is a huge reason pek got paid because pek was able to find the space near the hoop on ricky drives.

Even bad finishers like ricky have to be respected when they attack the basket because they won't give up an uncontested layup.

[kekgeek]

If Dunn ends up on the Wolves, Ricky will be here a year at the most.

Why do people only focus on the negatives with ricky. He is an elite defender, rebounder, passer, quarterback of an offense and leader. Yes he is not a good shooter or finisher but I doubt Dunn will be better than Ricky at anything that Ricky is already good at. I am fine with Dunn (my #7 player in this draft). But no use to trade ricky with the hope Dunn is better and he is not that much better than Ricky at shooting and I would be shocked if he is better than Ricky at anything else, especially in his 1st 3 years

[kekgeek]

With all the talk of Dunn (who I do like his shooting report reminded me of someone.

Dunn Report (from dx)
Dunn's combination of elite physical tools, ability to get to the rim, both in transition and off the dribble, passing ability, and defensive upside gives him an immense amount of potential to tap into, and should land him very high in the lottery as a result. While his turnover rate and inconsistency in his jump shot are currently holding his game back somewhere, those are correctable flaws and there's regardless quite a bit of room for growth left as the game slows down for him with age and experience.

Johnny Flynn report (from draft. Net)
Strengths: Tremendous athlete who always seems to have the game under control ... A real competitor who wants to take the big shots and excels in the clutch. His performance in the 6 OT UConn game (16-16 FT) was a good example ... One of the quickest guards in college basketball. Exceptional at getting into the lane and fearless finishing (sometimes dunking) over power forwards and centers ... Though he doesn't look overly muscular, Flynn possesses - and utilizes - great body strength for a 180-pound guard ... Can use both hands to finish at the rim. Exhibits great body control and creativity to get his shot off against taller defenders ... Can get to the foul line as well as any point guard out there, creating contact at the rim ... Is a clutch performer who has knocked countless late-game free throws in his two-year career at Syracuse ... Makes the game look easy because of his elite speed and quickness ... Lockdown defender on the perimeter. Flynn enjoys playing defense and seems to take pride in shutting down opposing point guards ... Displays solid court vision and strong leadership abilities ... Has the basketball IQ, focus and skills to excel as a pick-and-roll point guard at the next level. Small but long. Has a 6'4 wingspan at just 5'11 barefoot.

Weaknesses: Despite elite athleticism and quickness and good strength, Flynn is still just 6-feet tall. He will have a much tougher time attacking the rim against NBA big men than he did in college ... Because of that, Flynn needs to develop a more consistent jumpshot ... His lack of size is a concern as it takes a special talent to overcome the size issue ... More of a scorer than a distributor. Detractors question his ability to play the point guard position and run a team. Is he a natural point guard? Is he really ready? On the positive side, he's a heady player who will likely learn as he goes and improve ... At this point in his career, he is capable of ocasionally knocking down a long-range shot, but still does most of his damage in the paint ... Adding a strong 3-point shot and even a consistent 12-15 foot shot to his game would make Flynn virtually unguardable ... Can overdribble at times, but Syracuse's offense called for him to dominate the ball ... Will need to adapt to not having the ball in his hands all the time when he gets to the NBA ... Will also have to limit turnovers ... Flynn averaged 3.4 TOs per game as a sophomore ... 


Now Johnny was smaller and that does matter but they do seem very similar in reports