And yet LeBron wanted Love back. If LeBron really was irritated with Love, it sure as hell didn't change his view of him as a player.
PS: The Love/LeBron locker room stories were media-driven, as they did the same thing during the Miami era. Writers are always looking to bring down the title favorites in some fashion. I wouldn't, and haven't, bought into Love being a locker room cancer.
Where there is smoke there is fire. Love just doesn't seem like the kind of guy players want to play with. Even when he was here everyone talked about playing with Ricky. Love is a good player. I don't think the Cavs had any equal or close options to replace him or they would have. It seems like the only Love has had a good relationship on and off the court is Westbrook.
They wouldn't of resigned him to a MAX offer if there was fire. My god why are we still hanging onto this? You just want it to be true, even though it already turned out to be an overreaction. Gotta let it go
We're hanging on to this because it is the one-year anniversary of a major trade, and it seems like a suitable time to analyze it based on a year of experience. And Love's relationships with his teammates is a valid talking point in evaluating the trade.
As for the Cavs re-signing Love, I don't see that as an example of "no fire". The Cavs had no choice but to re-sign Love, and it had to be for the max. To let him walk after giving up Wiggins and Bennett would have been an absolute disaster from a PR standpoint. I think Love's max deal will be panned by the fans in the future, much like Joe Mauer's is now by Twins fans, but the fact of the matter is that at the time neither the Cavs or the Twins could have done anything differently...their hands were tied.
Who knows if this "smoke" is also "fire"...we're not in the locker room. What we do know is that Love seems to create smoke wherever he goes. Can you imagine a tweet like that about Wiggins? Or Rubio? Or Towns? And I could go on and on. But we're not surprised whenever controversy swirls around Love. Teammate harmony is not absolutely necessary for a team to be successful, but I would argue that it is much more important in basketball than sports like baseball or football. Basketball is unique in having only five players interacting in a very precise manner at any given time. How they feel about each other is naturally more important than in a more individual game like baseball.
To not resign Love, it would have been a PR hit for the Cavs. That doesn't mean it's the only reason they signed him though. Last season wasn't a disaster, it just wasn't as smooth of a fit as many (including me!) predicted. I thought Love was the perfect complement because of his ability to rebound, space the floor AND get garbage hoops without plays being called for him.
Turns out Cleveland really seemed to only care about the spacing the floor part... which still puzzles me. But hey... it largely worked. At least enough to embark on Season 2 of the partnership. Cleveland will be very good this season. Love will be part of that. Will it work out and they win a championship? Dunno. But the smart/savvy/predictable/PR thing was to give it another shot this season.
And yet LeBron wanted Love back. If LeBron really was irritated with Love, it sure as hell didn't change his view of him as a player.
PS: The Love/LeBron locker room stories were media-driven, as they did the same thing during the Miami era. Writers are always looking to bring down the title favorites in some fashion. I wouldn't, and haven't, bought into Love being a locker room cancer.
Where there is smoke there is fire. Love just doesn't seem like the kind of guy players want to play with. Even when he was here everyone talked about playing with Ricky. Love is a good player. I don't think the Cavs had any equal or close options to replace him or they would have. It seems like the only Love has had a good relationship on and off the court is Westbrook.
They wouldn't of resigned him to a MAX offer if there was fire. My god why are we still hanging onto this? You just want it to be true, even though it already turned out to be an overreaction. Gotta let it go
We're hanging on to this because it is the one-year anniversary of a major trade, and it seems like a suitable time to analyze it based on a year of experience. And Love's relationships with his teammates is a valid talking point in evaluating the trade.
As for the Cavs re-signing Love, I don't see that as an example of "no fire". The Cavs had no choice but to re-sign Love, and it had to be for the max. To let him walk after giving up Wiggins and Bennett would have been an absolute disaster from a PR standpoint. I think Love's max deal will be panned by the fans in the future, much like Joe Mauer's is now by Twins fans, but the fact of the matter is that at the time neither the Cavs or the Twins could have done anything differently...their hands were tied.
Who knows if this "smoke" is also "fire"...we're not in the locker room. What we do know is that Love seems to create smoke wherever he goes. Can you imagine a tweet like that about Wiggins? Or Rubio? Or Towns? And I could go on and on. But we're not surprised whenever controversy swirls around Love. Teammate harmony is not absolutely necessary for a team to be successful, but I would argue that it is much more important in basketball than sports like baseball or football. Basketball is unique in having only five players interacting in a very precise manner at any given time. How they feel about each other is naturally more important than in a more individual game like baseball.
Of course they had options. Hey let's harp on that Thompson was a better fit because of finals and what not. Why did they choose to resign Love and not Thompson? Your telling me that they couldn't of resigned Thompson to the money that he wanted if they thought he was a better fit and found a sign and trade for Love?
PR hit is so stupid for a reason. I don't think teams really care about worrying about PR in cases of roster rebuilding. It would be simple to spin as to say, "hey it's what Lebron wanted, and he drives this train, it was the price to pay".
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I can see Long's take... as I've noted before.
To not resign Love, it would have been a PR hit for the Cavs. That doesn't mean it's the only reason they signed him though. Last season wasn't a disaster, it just wasn't as smooth of a fit as many (including me!) predicted. I thought Love was the perfect complement because of his ability to rebound, space the floor AND get garbage hoops without plays being called for him.
Turns out Cleveland really seemed to only care about the spacing the floor part... which still puzzles me. But hey... it largely worked. At least enough to embark on Season 2 of the partnership. Cleveland will be very good this season. Love will be part of that. Will it work out and they win a championship? Dunno. But the smart/savvy/predictable/PR thing was to give it another shot this season.
After that.... all bets are off.
It was half a season of rough sailing, and pretty smooth from there on out. Really this is a 4-5 year journy, and if it only took a half a season to gel, it's really an overblown reaction. The EXACT same thing happen with the Lebron heat, started slow, didn't win the title, went on to win a lot. Differences being that the Cavs core is younger, Heat lost because of chemistry and the Cavs due to health, and the owner seems to be all in.
The idea they re-signed Love to a large deal = there were no problems integrating him last season is pure folly. Cleveland is all in on winning a championship with this group. Love can definitely help them with that goal. Quite simply that's the reason they signed him.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I can see Long's take... as I've noted before.
To not resign Love, it would have been a PR hit for the Cavs. That doesn't mean it's the only reason they signed him though. Last season wasn't a disaster, it just wasn't as smooth of a fit as many (including me!) predicted. I thought Love was the perfect complement because of his ability to rebound, space the floor AND get garbage hoops without plays being called for him.
Turns out Cleveland really seemed to only care about the spacing the floor part... which still puzzles me. But hey... it largely worked. At least enough to embark on Season 2 of the partnership. Cleveland will be very good this season. Love will be part of that. Will it work out and they win a championship? Dunno. But the smart/savvy/predictable/PR thing was to give it another shot this season.
After that.... all bets are off.
It was half a season of rough sailing, and pretty smooth from there on out. Really this is a 4-5 year journy, and if it only took a half a season to gel, it's really an overblown reaction. The EXACT same thing happen with the Lebron heat, started slow, didn't win the title, went on to win a lot. Differences being that the Cavs core is younger, Heat lost because of chemistry and the Cavs due to health, and the owner seems to be all in.
Don't disagree with much of that. It might not have been a magical perfect fit, ala the '08 Celtics... but it wasn't necessarily a trainwreck either. Unfortunately, in today's media cycle... there was just enough uncertainty there to harp on it daily ad nauseam until a small problem seemed like something more.
The Cavs were really good when Love, Irving and James played together. We'll probably see even more of that this season.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I can see Long's take... as I've noted before.
To not resign Love, it would have been a PR hit for the Cavs. That doesn't mean it's the only reason they signed him though. Last season wasn't a disaster, it just wasn't as smooth of a fit as many (including me!) predicted. I thought Love was the perfect complement because of his ability to rebound, space the floor AND get garbage hoops without plays being called for him.
Turns out Cleveland really seemed to only care about the spacing the floor part... which still puzzles me. But hey... it largely worked. At least enough to embark on Season 2 of the partnership. Cleveland will be very good this season. Love will be part of that. Will it work out and they win a championship? Dunno. But the smart/savvy/predictable/PR thing was to give it another shot this season.
After that.... all bets are off.
It was half a season of rough sailing, and pretty smooth from there on out. Really this is a 4-5 year journy, and if it only took a half a season to gel, it's really an overblown reaction. The EXACT same thing happen with the Lebron heat, started slow, didn't win the title, went on to win a lot. Differences being that the Cavs core is younger, Heat lost because of chemistry and the Cavs due to health, and the owner seems to be all in.
Don't disagree with much of that. It might not have been a magical perfect fit, ala the '08 Celtics... but it wasn't necessarily a trainwreck either. Unfortunately, in today's media cycle... there was just enough uncertainty there to harp on it daily ad nauseam until a small problem seemed like something more.
The Cavs were really good when Love, Irving and James played together. We'll probably see even more of that this season.
The Celtics weren't a magical perfect fit either. Pierce just came out and said it was him, Garnett and the rest of the team that hung out while Ray Allen did his own thing. It wasn't paradise there either. Having a paradise doesn't matter. If the worst conflict you have is your star wants your 3rd option to fit in instead of out, then you're really not that far off from paradise. I think that's a pretty weak branch to hold onto regarding drawbacks to the trade for them.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I can see Long's take... as I've noted before.
To not resign Love, it would have been a PR hit for the Cavs. That doesn't mean it's the only reason they signed him though. Last season wasn't a disaster, it just wasn't as smooth of a fit as many (including me!) predicted. I thought Love was the perfect complement because of his ability to rebound, space the floor AND get garbage hoops without plays being called for him.
Turns out Cleveland really seemed to only care about the spacing the floor part... which still puzzles me. But hey... it largely worked. At least enough to embark on Season 2 of the partnership. Cleveland will be very good this season. Love will be part of that. Will it work out and they win a championship? Dunno. But the smart/savvy/predictable/PR thing was to give it another shot this season.
After that.... all bets are off.
It was half a season of rough sailing, and pretty smooth from there on out. Really this is a 4-5 year journy, and if it only took a half a season to gel, it's really an overblown reaction. The EXACT same thing happen with the Lebron heat, started slow, didn't win the title, went on to win a lot. Differences being that the Cavs core is younger, Heat lost because of chemistry and the Cavs due to health, and the owner seems to be all in.
Don't disagree with much of that. It might not have been a magical perfect fit, ala the '08 Celtics... but it wasn't necessarily a trainwreck either. Unfortunately, in today's media cycle... there was just enough uncertainty there to harp on it daily ad nauseam until a small problem seemed like something more.
The Cavs were really good when Love, Irving and James played together. We'll probably see even more of that this season.
The Celtics weren't a magical perfect fit either. Pierce just came out and said it was him, Garnett and the rest of the team that hung out while Ray Allen did his own thing. It wasn't paradise there either. Having a paradise doesn't matter. If the worst conflict you have is your star wants your 3rd option to fit in instead of out, then you're really not that far off from paradise. I think that's a pretty weak branch to hold onto regarding drawbacks to the trade for them.
I was talking about on-court performance, not personality fit. I don't care about warm fuzzies... never have. It's almost entirely conjecture. We don't know what these guys are like behind the scenes or whether it's important they like each or not.
The '08 Celtics won its first 8 games. They were 29 - 3 at one point. Everybody in the league knew almost immediately that the experiment was working and that the team was a viable title favorite.
The '15 Cavs were 19 - 20 at one point in the season.
How in the world does Melo take a backseat to Lebron and Kyrie? Love at least is an elite rebounder and passer for a big man so the scoring drop doesn't render him to an average player or worse. Melo is an elite gunner at this point and that's pretty much it. The only team that really has the assets to get him where he would accept a deal is Chicago and that would cost them at least Butler which sets them back defensively by a lot on the perimeter. Teams with lots of young assets don't fall into his big market mentality unless he's willing to go to the Lakers to play next to Kobe and be in the same boat just on a different rebuilding team.
