Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden wrote:

thedoper wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Lots of good discussion in this thread about an intriguing draft that may turn out to be better than last year's highly touted draft. At least with al the injuries to this year's rookie crop, there's no doubt in my mind that next year's rookies will perform better in their respective first years.

But as we discuss the relative merits of what appears to be a pretty solid Big 5 now, is there anyone who would seriously pass on Okafor if the Wolves got the first pick? This guy has been the Wiggins of this year's class for many years...i.e. the guy who has been #1 since junior high...and he has done nothing to disappoint the pundits in his freshman year. It's fine to have a good discussion about the top 5, but Okafor has to be considered the top pick.

You're absolutely right. I think any team that would pass on him in the one spot would and will be mocked for years. No reason to over think this. Take the center with the sweet footwork. His footwork alone on offense implies to me that he could become a really useful defender.

Offensive footwork in the post does not translate to being a good defender. I'm not even sure why you made that statement considering his feet are his weakness on defense. On offense, he's the attacker. Defensively he's slow and unable to react quickly. His strength and length are what he has right now. If you're coaching him, you just hope he's a tremendous student of the game because he'll have to be a step ahead mentally to make up for it.

It can translate into being a good defender. His offensive footwork implies that he understands one on one movement body positioning. These are all essential skills for a big to be an excellent defender. He does look lost and slow on D now but I don't think it is because of some mechanical flaw or great lack of athleticism that he can't make up for with his already high basketball IQ. His shortcomings as a defender now seem much more to be about inexperience in a team D situation. I am confident this kid is going to be just fine.

Well, sure, I even said I think he'll be fine defending the post. It won't be his feet as the reason why, though. It's that 270 lb body with strength and a 7+ foot wingspan. All in all, I just don't see him being a good defender. But defense is not why you draft him and I do get that.

Honestly, I'd be happy with any one of Okafor, Johnson, Towns, Russell or Mudiay. I hope when I'm criticizing prospects on here it doesn't get looked at as me thinking that player isn't good or will fail.

I'll be blatant if I don't like a player; think Anthony Bennett or James Young.

Something to note. Okafor looks to have the same wingspan as Hibbert. Hibbert is also not very athletic, but he is still able to be an effective anchor of a good defense. Okafor's length tells me that he really just needs to learn how to be in the right position to help and keep his arms up and he'll be fine defensively as a rim protector. Imagine if Pek had a 7'6 wingspan. We wouldn't even be talking about a potential replacement for him.

I am just not sure how Towns can stay in the discussion for top 5. While guys like Russell, Looney and Johnson are playing better as the season progresses, Towns is becoming more invisible. He is a fairly gigantic wallflower for much of the game. NOTHING on the offensive end seems to come easy to him, which is a shock considering his mix of size and supposed athleticism. I have now watched numerous recent games where he simply has no ability to man-handle much smaller and weaker defensive players. It is actually quite maddening because with his defensive talent, I desperately want him to at least show a glimmer of something. At this point, his lack of anything resembling an offensive game simply overshadows his potential as a defender.

This is not to say he doesn't have potential, but man, I keep expecting each game for something to surface.

And I can tell you that I will take a Cam type commitment on a player and say that Willy Cauley-Stein is a bust at the NBA level. He may end of a journeyman type on 6-8 teams, but he just doesn't have the skill to be an impact type in the form of Noah. Some say his defense is elite, but I just don't see it. While he is clearly mobile, all those 7 footers just seem to cover one another making it impossible to tell which guys are good and which average. Like I brought up before, I realize they have some collective talent, but most games WCS, Towns, Johnson and Lyles are all interchangeable, and none of them sticks out.....good or bad. I think we can all agree that probably only 1 of those guys ends up an impact guy in NBA, but none of them have stood out to any degree. I guess that if I am evaluating this team, I want at least one of these guys to assertively step forward and claim the spot of "top dawg"! Until then, I pass.

I'm sure Kevin Martin and Klay Thompson have similar wingspans too, but they're two different players. Same goes for Okafor and Hibbert. Hibbert was also a four-year college player with little expectations at the NBA level. But to your point, could Okafor become that? Sure, but he would need to be so much smarter than he is right now. Hibbert's able to read and react so much faster than Okafor. Without those instincts, he too would look slow and lumbering on D.

Camden0916 wrote:I'm sure Kevin Martin and Klay Thompson have similar wingspans too, but they're two different players. Same goes for Okafor and Hibbert. Hibbert was also a four-year college player with little expectations at the NBA level. But to your point, could Okafor become that? Sure, but he would need to be so much smarter than he is right now. Hibbert's able to read and react so much faster than Okafor. Without those instincts, he too would look slow and lumbering on D.

Who died and made you the ruler over comparisons? Big, not very athletic and long with an exact wingspan comparison. From a physical standpoint that is comparable. I was simply comparing size and physical ability and not play style.

Camden wrote:"That's because I'm not convinced Okafor won't be a good defender and I'm also not convinced that Johnson will be good offensively." -- Q

We're on the opposite side of this one. I don't think Okafor will ever be "good" on defense. Duke doesn't really ask much from the one-and-done guys on defense, but even still Okafor struggles mightily and his weaknesses there all come back to his feet and his lack of great athleticism. Coaching can't fix those two. He's going to be a good post defender, I think, because he's big as hell and has good length, but team-wise he's not going to be better than average. That last part is my opinion.

What has Johnson showed for you to not be convinced of his offense? .594 TS%, 15 PPG on a well-rounded Arizona team. Lives in the paint and gets to the line at a good clip. Not to mention if you watch Arizona games he plays through the offense. Doesn't get spoon-fed possessions, mainly because Arizona has plenty of weapons. Stanley still leads them in scoring and rebounding, however. And while you can question his shooting and how that will translate, it's still promising that he's shooting 41% on the year while making one a game.

Duncan (the old man version), Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Andrew Bogut.....You don't have to be quick and athletic to be a good individual AND team defender. These guys all do it without elite quickness and while rarely ever leaving their feet.

I like Johnson's efficiency, but he's not doing it in high volume. I've said this before, but college scoring efficiency is often the least reliable attribute to translate to the NBA. Rebounding, assists, steals, and blocks tend to be more reliable. Now if Johnson were the focal point of the offense and he was putting up those percentages at 20-ish PPG, I'd be more certain about it. He might end up being a great scorer too - I just don't know because it's tough to rely on college #'s to make that prediction.

longstrangetrip wrote:Lots of good discussion in this thread about an intriguing draft that may turn out to be better than last year's highly touted draft. At least with al the injuries to this year's rookie crop, there's no doubt in my mind that next year's rookies will perform better in their respective first years.

But as we discuss the relative merits of what appears to be a pretty solid Big 5 now, is there anyone who would seriously pass on Okafor if the Wolves got the first pick? This guy has been the Wiggins of this year's class for many years...i.e. the guy who has been #1 since junior high...and he has done nothing to disappoint the pundits in his freshman year. It's fine to have a good discussion about the top 5, but Okafor has to be considered the top pick.

I absolutely would, and I would take Towns in a heartbeat.

In a perfect world, Okafor's our third best player behind Rubio and Wiggins. Why revamp much of the roster to suit a guy who a can't defend while joining a team who won't teach it?

I can see it leading to some tough decisions this team won't have the heart to make (in other words, this puts Dieng on the hot seat because he hasn't shown he can cover for someone that bad defensively)


I still think this draft sucks for us outside of Towns and Hezonja. I don't mind Russell (or Johnson even), but selecting another wing officially makes developing LaVine a waste of everyone's time (not that it isn't already).

Seriously Towns #1? Not a chance.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Lots of good discussion in this thread about an intriguing draft that may turn out to be better than last year's highly touted draft. At least with al the injuries to this year's rookie crop, there's no doubt in my mind that next year's rookies will perform better in their respective first years.

But as we discuss the relative merits of what appears to be a pretty solid Big 5 now, is there anyone who would seriously pass on Okafor if the Wolves got the first pick? This guy has been the Wiggins of this year's class for many years...i.e. the guy who has been #1 since junior high...and he has done nothing to disappoint the pundits in his freshman year. It's fine to have a good discussion about the top 5, but Okafor has to be considered the top pick.

I absolutely would, and I would take Towns in a heartbeat.

In a perfect world, Okafor's our third best player behind Rubio and Wiggins. Why revamp much of the roster to suit a guy who a can't defend while joining a team who won't teach it?

I can see it leading to some tough decisions this team won't have the heart to make (in other words, this puts Dieng on the hot seat because he hasn't shown he can cover for someone that bad defensively)


I still think this draft sucks for us outside of Towns and Hezonja. I don't mind Russell (or Johnson even), but selecting another wing officially makes developing LaVine a waste of everyone's time (not that it isn't already).

Why are we convinced that Towns is superior defensively? I just find it hard to evaluate a guy that is part of a shift-style rotation, plays with multiple other big men, and isn't the anchor of their team. Not that I'm anti-Towns, I just find it hard to make such declarative statements about almost anyone on that Kentucky team (by the way, he's now slipped on DX's big board and been replaced by D'Angelo Russell at #2).