Tactical unit wrote:Basically they can try to maximize the asset, by figuring out what that price tag is that makes him an asset for most teams even with his flaws and lock him up for that amount. If you figure that out you have his skills and can move on from them whenever the time or price is right that would be win win.
My fear is they lock into him at a price that is too much and he becomes untradeable and we have salary locked up in a declining asset. Once it's playoff time all the hot sauce, thread the needle passes, and in your face shots tend to get harder and defense or lack of defense tends to get exposed. I think it will just become more clear that he's not a starting PG and he will want that kind of money. So again is he worth that kind of money?
I'm trying to see both sides here and there is a way to play it perfect if you get him at a decent price but I'm more in favor of moving on because I think MN has plenty of scoring and I prefer the best possible defenders around KAT and Edwards. It's a hard spot because DLO does bring skills to the table but if you want a championship caliber team, I think he's more of a liability than an asset.
Yeah, that's where I'm at. It of course projects that Ant continues his rise to be a top 10 player, which may still be a couple years away or may never happen. But he certainly has all the ingredients and his current trajectory points toward this eventuality.
And if ultimately Ant becomes a fairly ball-dominant, high usage wing, and KAT is a high usage big, then you simply have to have three other guys on the floor that can defend at a high level.
I don't necessarily think you're wrong with this take, Q. But I do think you're early. I don't think Anthony Edwards is ready to be that guy yet in the form of other top lead guards. He's not there in his development -- in terms of skill, temperament, or intelligence -- nor would I ask him to be as a 21-year old. Having D'Angelo Russell around allows Edwards to play an overall easier game. Score. Defend. Be active. Make plays when you can. That's much easier for him to grasp and excel at right now versus needing him to do all of that plus run offensive sets, facilitate his teammates, constantly create his own shot, etc. We might have that guy in Edwards down the road, but not quite yet.
I lean toward keeping DLo on a better contract if we can and trading him later if the long term trajectory of this franchise lessens his value as a playmaker. But I do think we need to ask would Dlo be ok increasing Ant's usage, in a real contract year, where he may have gotten what he perceives to be a low ball offer or none at all?
I am glad Connelly has the reigns but this is going to be a legit test, I don't think it's as easy as letting him play on an expiring contract or dumping him on a downward trajectory in value right now. Cam seems to hold the most optimistic view that Dlo has a sober perception of his basketball worth. It would be refreshing to me if that were actually the case, I'm just not as optimistic that DLo would be ok with a paycut. It would be counter intuitive for a player that theoretically should be entering the contract that covers their prime basketball years.
Tactical unit wrote:Basically they can try to maximize the asset, by figuring out what that price tag is that makes him an asset for most teams even with his flaws and lock him up for that amount. If you figure that out you have his skills and can move on from them whenever the time or price is right that would be win win.
My fear is they lock into him at a price that is too much and he becomes untradeable and we have salary locked up in a declining asset. Once it's playoff time all the hot sauce, thread the needle passes, and in your face shots tend to get harder and defense or lack of defense tends to get exposed. I think it will just become more clear that he's not a starting PG and he will want that kind of money. So again is he worth that kind of money?
I'm trying to see both sides here and there is a way to play it perfect if you get him at a decent price but I'm more in favor of moving on because I think MN has plenty of scoring and I prefer the best possible defenders around KAT and Edwards. It's a hard spot because DLO does bring skills to the table but if you want a championship caliber team, I think he's more of a liability than an asset.
Yeah, that's where I'm at. It of course projects that Ant continues his rise to be a top 10 player, which may still be a couple years away or may never happen. But he certainly has all the ingredients and his current trajectory points toward this eventuality.
And if ultimately Ant becomes a fairly ball-dominant, high usage wing, and KAT is a high usage big, then you simply have to have three other guys on the floor that can defend at a high level.
I don't necessarily think you're wrong with this take, Q. But I do think you're early. I don't think Anthony Edwards is ready to be that guy yet in the form of other top lead guards. He's not there in his development -- in terms of skill, temperament, or intelligence -- nor would I ask him to be as a 21-year old. Having D'Angelo Russell around allows Edwards to play an overall easier game. Score. Defend. Be active. Make plays when you can. That's much easier for him to grasp and excel at right now versus needing him to do all of that plus run offensive sets, facilitate his teammates, constantly create his own shot, etc. We might have that guy in Edwards down the road, but not quite yet.
Understood, and I think having him around this past season was absolutely key to helping Ant and the overall team. My hang-up is that next contract. I just don't trust that it will be easily tradeable.
thedoper wrote:I lean toward keeping DLo on a better contract if we can and trading him later if the long term trajectory of this franchise lessens his value as a playmaker. But I do think we need to ask would Dlo be ok increasing Ant's usage, in a real contract year, where he may have gotten what he perceives to be a low ball offer or none at all?
I am glad Connelly has the reigns but this is going to be a legit test, I don't think it's as easy as letting him play on an expiring contract or dumping him on a downward trajectory in value right now. Cam seems to hold the most optimistic view that Dlo has a sober perception of his basketball worth. It would be refreshing to me if that were actually the case, I'm just not as optimistic that DLo would be ok with a paycut. It would be counter intuitive for a player that theoretically should be entering the contract that covers their prime basketball years.
Good point about him taking a pay cut, he would just as well try to have a killer season and "earn" top dollar vice take say 100 million for 4 years.
If DLO stays this year, the time will come when Ant decides to ignore him on the offensive end. That's where the rubber will hit the road. DLO asking for the ball and Ant shooing him away. The fit between the two is going to become worse and worse.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:If DLO stays this year, the time will come when Ant decides to ignore him on the offensive end. That's where the rubber will hit the road. DLO asking for the ball and Ant shooing him away. The fit between the two is going to become worse and worse.
Yep, what happens when ant gets pissed next year because he's tired of Dlo getting in his way and taking terrible shots and not playing defense. This moment is coming and I bet it's coming soon. Then we'll have dlo on a freshly signed 4/100 extension (what a bargain). Then we'd probably need to attach a 1st just to trade Dlo and keep ant happy. This is a very real scenario that I don't think many have considered (besides cool, wild and a couple others). If you were ant would you want this inefficient chucker getting in your way for the next 5 years or would you want the team to surround you with actual 3 & D players that compliment your game?
CoolBreeze44 wrote:If DLO stays this year, the time will come when Ant decides to ignore him on the offensive end. That's where the rubber will hit the road. DLO asking for the ball and Ant shooing him away. The fit between the two is going to become worse and worse.
I don't think we can definitively say one way or the other for the future, but there's not nearly enough supporting evidence right now for that to be a legitimate concern.
Consider that D'Angelo Russell has already lowered his usage rate and field goal attempts per game from prior seasons to accommodate his budding star and 20-year old teammate, Anthony Edwards. He's well-aware of the hierarchy offensively and has only verbalized his support of it. And then you can get into the advanced statistics that show lineups with both of them on the court are much better than when Russell is off.
What makes you think the fit is suddenly going to turn sour as Edwards continues his ascension? If anything, there should have already been issues considering Russell is the veteran, more-established guard and from what we can gather there hasn't been any.
My prediction is that Connelly trades Dlo in a big deal for a PG or a PF this offseason...
- Dlo, 19, and future protected 1st for Jamal Murray - if Denver decides to role with Morris at starting pg (might be smart) and not pay 3 max guys after next year (one being super max), Connelly might be the first to know. I'd do this deal. Murray is a huge upgrade to Dlo.
- Dlo for John Collins (sign Tyus to mle with player option in last year) - atlanta has a lot of quality bigs. Gets them off of Collins contract and gives them a year to see if Dlo is a good fit as an added ball handler with and behind trae. Two guys with pretty similar value.
- Dlo for Lonzo Ball (if lavine leaves). Might be a better fit for both teams if lavine leaves. Not sure how this wouldn't be realistic?
- Dlo and a future 1st for Tyler Herro - it seems like herro might be on the outs in Miami. Miami has plenty of toughness, but could use another scorer who can get his own shot. Obviously would require us to add a first. .
- Dlo for Westbrook, Sekou D and future unprotected 1st - no sekou, but an unprotected first would be the price to swap Westbrook for Dlo and I think the lakers would pay it. Not a huge fan of Westbrook but I think Lakers might be desperate this off-season and Dlo would be an outstanding fit there.
- Dlo, naz, 19 and a 2nd for Wendell carter and Suggs (sign tyus to mle) - buying low on the hometown pg and getting a really solid big. Banking on Orlando wanting an experienced former all star pg (lol). Might need to add another protected first.
- Dlo and naz for Kennard and hartenstein (s&t) (sign tyus to mle) - kennard would be a great fit here and the clippers are full at the wings. If I'm the clippers I pass, but who knows. I'm assuming hartenstein could be sign and traded so we could save the mle.
- dlo,naz and 2nd round pick for portis (s&t) and expiring filler. (Sign tyus to mle). - portis is big part of Milwaukee's team but maybe they decide they don't want to pay him. Their early exit showed that they could use another scoring guard (especially with Middleton out). They probably say no, but could be worth a call. I think it would be worth a call. Could be a way to get portis on a 3/50 deal.
D-Mac wrote:My prediction is that Connelly trades Dlo in a big deal for a PG or a PF this offseason...
- Dlo, 19, and future protected 1st for Jamal Murray
- Dlo for John Collins (sign Tyus to mle with player option in last year)
- Dlo for Lonzo Ball (if lavine leaves)
- Dlo and a future 1st for Tyler Herro
- Dlo for Westbrook, Sekou D and future unprotected 1st
- Dlo, naz, 19 and a 2nd for Wendell carter and Suggs (sign tyus to mle)
- Dlo and naz for Kennard and hartenstein (s&t) (sign tyus to mle)
- dlo,naz and 2nd round pick for portis (s&t) and expiring filler. (Sign tyus to mle)
D-Mac wrote:My prediction is that Connelly trades Dlo in a big deal for a PG or a PF this offseason...
- Dlo, 19, and future protected 1st for Jamal Murray
- Dlo for John Collins (sign Tyus to mle with player option in last year)
- Dlo for Lonzo Ball (if lavine leaves)
- Dlo and a future 1st for Tyler Herro
- Dlo for Westbrook, Sekou D and future unprotected 1st
- Dlo, naz, 19 and a 2nd for Wendell carter and Suggs (sign tyus to mle)
- Dlo and naz for Kennard and hartenstein (s&t) (sign tyus to mle)
- dlo,naz and 2nd round pick for portis (s&t) and expiring filler. (Sign tyus to mle)
None of these deals are realistic
Ha if you're talking about money matching, obviously I know that other pieces need to be included. If you're talking about value, then I disagree. The Orlando one might be a reach but others are realistic. I think you're just being arrogantly dismissive so I go away lol. If lip posted this you wouldn't be as quickly dismissive. But hey, cool :)
