Trade Talks Update

[kekgeek]

I think Britt has a worthwhile take here.

https://twitter.com/brittrobson/status/1046570789477261312?s=21

-I've been hard on Thibs but truth is that the organization has absorbed the psychological blow+now have the leverage. If Butler is unhappy he can sit. His value won't go down in the next 6 weeks. Thibs called him "worth everything" frequently last season. No shock price is high-

So how I see it the Wolves have gotten some offers and now if they haven't liked what they have heard they wait for something better. The reports of wondering if Thibs is gonna actually trade Butler or not...probably some of that is just trying to up the pressure on Thibs and Glen etc. Does Jimmy want to play right away? Yep I'm sure he does. That puts more pressure on him and his side to go out and find a deal and pressure other teams to get something done. Listening to Thibs and the players on the court it seems like the team has moved on. The guys a trade will likely impact the most in terms of minutes are Taj and Gibson who are vets that know Butler so they are gonna be alright. Thibs seems pretty chill and Taj last night said as much. Taj said Thibs was joking with refs last night and after the game Thibs was jokingly needling Nick Freidell the former Bulls reporter that now works for ESPN. For a guy that's supposed to be in the most tumultuous situation of his career he seems to be handling it pretty well handling it well being in better shape while fielding jokes about his weight loss etc.

I ment to put that in the game thread but I did notice thibs sat for a huge portion of the game. He still had his twitch but he was sitting and I didn't hear him tell ice or call out a play all night. Is that a thing to come or was it a preseason game so he was more calm

[mjs34]

I found this on Hoopshype, apparently written by the athletic

All across the NBA, with more than half the league having shown varying levels of interest in landing the four-time All-Star, the feedback coming Butler's way remains the same: Minnesota's asking price is far too high, inter-team communication is sometimes an exercise in futility, and the counter-offers that the Timberwolves have provided are, as Butler's side sees it, downright delusional.

I'm just wondering how the counter offers are downright delusional when Jimmy thinks we should have cleared cap to give him a 5 yr/ 190 mil deal. Maybe Jimmy isn't as good as he thinks, at least not in the eyes of the NBA.

Damn, I hope this drags out for the rest of the season.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

I found this on Hoopshype, apparently written by the athletic

All across the NBA, with more than half the league having shown varying levels of interest in landing the four-time All-Star, the feedback coming Butler's way remains the same: Minnesota's asking price is far too high, inter-team communication is sometimes an exercise in futility, and the counter-offers that the Timberwolves have provided are, as Butler's side sees it, downright delusional.

I'm just wondering how the counter offers are downright delusional when Jimmy thinks we should have cleared cap to give him a 5 yr/ 190 mil deal. Maybe Jimmy isn't as good as he thinks, at least not in the eyes of the NBA.

Damn, I hope this drags out for the rest of the season.

Seconded.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I don't want this thing to drag on the whole season. I'd genuinely like the Wolves to be competitive this season and that will be tough to do without an NBA-caliber starting wing. Rose should be coming off the bench.

[Lipoli390]

I found this on Hoopshype, apparently written by the athletic

All across the NBA, with more than half the league having shown varying levels of interest in landing the four-time All-Star, the feedback coming Butler's way remains the same: Minnesota's asking price is far too high, inter-team communication is sometimes an exercise in futility, and the counter-offers that the Timberwolves have provided are, as Butler's side sees it, downright delusional.

I'm just wondering how the counter offers are downright delusional when Jimmy thinks we should have cleared cap to give him a 5 yr/ 190 mil deal. Maybe Jimmy isn't as good as he thinks, at least not in the eyes of the NBA.

Damn, I hope this drags out for the rest of the season.

Well, it would seem that both Thibodeau and Jimmy have overestimated Jimmy's value. Of course, it doesn't matter what Thibodeau and Jimmy think. The market sets his value based on what teams around the League are willing to give up for him under the circumstances, weighing the wins he can add as an allstar in his prime against the following negatives:

1. He's not a superstar - although Thibodeau and Butler think he is
2. He has a hard time staying healthy, consistently missing 15 games a season
3. He has a history of alienating teammates
4. He has only 1 season left on his contract, which means he could be a 1-yr rental
5. Re-signing him will be expensive, requiring a long-term contract beyond his prime
6. The Wolves have limited leverage given his trade demand just before the season

If the Wolves don't trade him before the season, the market will dry up entirely until the January/February time frame when a team might be in a situation that sparks an interest in dealing for Butler to compete for a championship. But that's unlikely. In other words, the best offers for Butler will come before the season starts. Just letting Butler walk next summer does NOT make the Wolves players in the free agent market next summer.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I found this on Hoopshype, apparently written by the athletic

All across the NBA, with more than half the league having shown varying levels of interest in landing the four-time All-Star, the feedback coming Butler's way remains the same: Minnesota's asking price is far too high, inter-team communication is sometimes an exercise in futility, and the counter-offers that the Timberwolves have provided are, as Butler's side sees it, downright delusional.

I'm just wondering how the counter offers are downright delusional when Jimmy thinks we should have cleared cap to give him a 5 yr/ 190 mil deal. Maybe Jimmy isn't as good as he thinks, at least not in the eyes of the NBA.

Damn, I hope this drags out for the rest of the season.

Well, it would seem that both Thibodeau and Jimmy have overestimated Jimmy's value. Of course, it doesn't matter what Thibodeau and Jimmy think. The market sets his value based on what teams around the League are willing to give up for him under the circumstances, weighing the wins he can add as an allstar in his prime against the following negatives:

1. He's not a superstar - although Thibodeau and Butler think he is
2. He has a hard time staying healthy, consistently missing 15 games a season
3. He has a history of alienating teammates
4. He has only 1 season left on his contract, which means he could be a 1-yr rental
5. Re-signing him will be expensive, requiring a long-term contract beyond his prime
6. The Wolves have limited leverage given his trade demand just before the season

If the Wolves don't trade him before the season, the market will dry up entirely until the January/February time frame when a team might be in a situation that sparks an interest in dealing for Butler to compete for a championship. But that's unlikely. In other words, the best offers for Butler will come before the season starts. Just letting Butler walk next summer does NOT make the Wolves players in the free agent market next summer.

I don't know about you, but I would put a 16 win improvement in 1 season in the superstar category. He was 20th in win shares and didn't even play 1/3rd of the season. We were the 3 seed beating everyone around us in the standings in the most stacked conference that has been seen in a while in this league. Jimmy is still somehow being underrated by everyone.

[bleedspeed]

I still think the worst thing that could have happened was Butler stays with the Wolves and signs a 5 year $190M deal. Him pushing to leave is not the worst thing that could have happened to this franchise. It would have been signing him to a long-term contract Lipoli's points above do a good job of showing why.

Butler might find next year that free agency is not super kind to him.

[Monster]

I found this on Hoopshype, apparently written by the athletic

All across the NBA, with more than half the league having shown varying levels of interest in landing the four-time All-Star, the feedback coming Butler's way remains the same: Minnesota's asking price is far too high, inter-team communication is sometimes an exercise in futility, and the counter-offers that the Timberwolves have provided are, as Butler's side sees it, downright delusional.

I'm just wondering how the counter offers are downright delusional when Jimmy thinks we should have cleared cap to give him a 5 yr/ 190 mil deal. Maybe Jimmy isn't as good as he thinks, at least not in the eyes of the NBA.

Damn, I hope this drags out for the rest of the season.

Well, it would seem that both Thibodeau and Jimmy have overestimated Jimmy's value. Of course, it doesn't matter what Thibodeau and Jimmy think. The market sets his value based on what teams around the League are willing to give up for him under the circumstances, weighing the wins he can add as an allstar in his prime against the following negatives:

1. He's not a superstar - although Thibodeau and Butler think he is
2. He has a hard time staying healthy, consistently missing 15 games a season
3. He has a history of alienating teammates
4. He has only 1 season left on his contract, which means he could be a 1-yr rental
5. Re-signing him will be expensive, requiring a long-term contract beyond his prime
6. The Wolves have limited leverage given his trade demand just before the season

If the Wolves don't trade him before the season, the market will dry up entirely until the January/February time frame when a team might be in a situation that sparks an interest in dealing for Butler to compete for a championship. But that's unlikely. In other words, the best offers for Butler will come before the season starts. Just letting Butler walk next summer does NOT make the Wolves players in the free agent market next summer.

I don't know about you, but I would put a 16 win improvement in 1 season in the superstar category. He was 20th in win shares and didn't even play 1/3rd of the season. We were the 3 seed beating everyone around us in the standings in the most stacked conference that has been seen in a while in this league. Jimmy is still somehow being underrated by everyone.

Some people claim guys are superstars that don't actually play defense. Butler might not be a superstar offensive player (but a very good one) but he plays well above average defense. His ability to play both sides of the ball when healthy makes him incredibly valueable.

[Monster]

I still think the worst thing that could have happened was Butler stays with the Wolves and signs a 5 year $190M deal. Him pushing to leave is not the worst thing that could have happened to this franchise. It would have been signing him to a long-term contract Lipoli's points above do a good job of showing why.

Butler might find next year that free agency is not super kind to him.

I agree with you Bleed. I'll say though that if healthy Butler is gonna get paid although maybe not that massive deal that he supposedly wants.

[mjs34]

I see both sides of the argument, but I think there are several other factors that usually get left out. I'm upset that Jimmy wants out, but I can also see how frustrating it is for him to watch Wig float through the season. I appreciate that he let us know he won't re-sign a year early so we can get something for him, but it is also to his advantage to be traded for his next contract, would have been much easier had he not leaked info to the media. Did Thibs stubbornness force his hand?

Monster points out that he makes up for his offense (not that it isn't above average) by being a great two way player, and that certainly puts him in superstar discussions. Lip points out the injury history, but we also have to take into account the number of minutes he has endured under Thibs. Would both his offense, and injury history be improved by playing for a coach with a better offensive system, and time management?

I also think it should be pointed out when looking at last seasons record with and without Butler, that we were in a very tough part of the schedule during his absence. Would we have fared better at different point of the season?

I think most of this could have been handled better by a different coach and management structure.