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Re: Butler requests trade...
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:59 pm
by TheFuture
AbeVigodaLive wrote:TheFuture wrote:Q12543 wrote:kekgeek1 wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:A lot of NBA moves don't pan out.
I think the trade for Butler was a worthy effort to bring winning to a terrible, terrible NBA franchise that hadn't even been above .500 for 10+ years. It didn't pan out because of an ogre of a coach, a dick of a star player and probably some immaturity from other players... or many other reasons. But it wasn't a foregone conclusion. And
it's not like the guys traded in that deal are thriving at this point.
The shoe will ultimately drop. And Thibs and others will be held accountable. But the move itself made sense... a calculated risk.
I know I liked it better than when a non-basketball guy working as GM decided to recreate a New York Knicks backcourt from 1972 with two players who were nothing like those two players...
Couldn't agree more with this post
Agreed. Also, Tyus, Dieng, KAT and Wiggins finally got to play games in late March and April that actually mattered. None of them had ever experienced that before in the NBA! That must count for
something versus piling up season after season of losing basketball.
Getting your head beat in by a top seed team is worthwhile? If anything it cements the idea that you're nowhere close and only compounds the hurt when you look at the situation and see you have no wiggle room..
You overhaul when you know what you have and know it won't work. We weren't there yet. There is no middle ground.
We made a trade without knowing what we had, and screwed the pooch.
Wait. What?
Does Chicago know what it has in LaVine and Dunn? No trade is made with a crystal ball. If LaVine doesn't make great strides soon... this could be a lose-lose type of trade.
Just out of curiosity... how long have you been following Wolves basketball?
Not sure of the relevancy of your question, but my whole life. We've never been relevant.
Yeah, they don't know what Lavine and Dunn are. That is my point. We made a trade without knowing what Wiggins and KAT are. You compile and keep young talent for a reason in sports. Cream rises to the top or flashes and falls face down. We made a big trade before knowing which it was.
Re: Butler requests trade...
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:00 pm
by kekgeek
AbeVigodaLive wrote:TheFuture wrote:Q12543 wrote:kekgeek1 wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:A lot of NBA moves don't pan out.
I think the trade for Butler was a worthy effort to bring winning to a terrible, terrible NBA franchise that hadn't even been above .500 for 10+ years. It didn't pan out because of an ogre of a coach, a dick of a star player and probably some immaturity from other players... or many other reasons. But it wasn't a foregone conclusion. And
it's not like the guys traded in that deal are thriving at this point.
The shoe will ultimately drop. And Thibs and others will be held accountable. But the move itself made sense... a calculated risk.
I know I liked it better than when a non-basketball guy working as GM decided to recreate a New York Knicks backcourt from 1972 with two players who were nothing like those two players...
Couldn't agree more with this post
Agreed. Also, Tyus, Dieng, KAT and Wiggins finally got to play games in late March and April that actually mattered. None of them had ever experienced that before in the NBA! That must count for
something versus piling up season after season of losing basketball.
Getting your head beat in by a top seed team is worthwhile? If anything it cements the idea that you're nowhere close and only compounds the hurt when you look at the situation and see you have no wiggle room..
You overhaul when you know what you have and know it won't work. We weren't there yet. There is no middle ground.
We made a trade without knowing what we had, and screwed the pooch.
Just out of curiosity... how long have you been following Wolves basketball?
Yep, this trade could easily be lose lose. Dunn is fighting with his 2nd head coach in as many years and Lavine was worse then Wiggins last year and he is now getting paid. You could say we made the trade at the best possible time because those 2 players have little value around the league now.
Markannan is the only one who could make the trade a good one for the Bulls.
Re: Butler requests trade...
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:09 pm
by KiwiMatt
Butler to LAC for Tobias Harris, Pat Beverley and a top 10 protected 1st round. Worth a shot.
Re: Butler requests trade...
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:11 pm
by kekgeek
KiwiMatt wrote:Butler to LAC for Tobias Harris, Pat Beverley and a top 10 protected 1st round. Worth a shot.
Would hope we could get more then that. Harris/One of their rookies and a unprotected pick
Re: Butler requests trade...
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:12 pm
by thedoper
Is it me or is this board at its best when the team is totally dysfunctional?
Go Wolves.
Re: Butler requests trade...
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:14 pm
by TheFuture
kekgeek1 wrote:KiwiMatt wrote:Butler to LAC for Tobias Harris, Pat Beverley and a top 10 protected 1st round. Worth a shot.
Would hope we could get more then that. Harris/One of their rookies and a unprotected pick
We got Butler on two years for who everyone here says are busts in LaVine and Dunn + a pick swap. Which delusion are you a part of?
Re: Butler requests trade...
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:18 pm
by kekgeek
TheFuture wrote:kekgeek1 wrote:KiwiMatt wrote:Butler to LAC for Tobias Harris, Pat Beverley and a top 10 protected 1st round. Worth a shot.
Would hope we could get more then that. Harris/One of their rookies and a unprotected pick
We got Butler on two years for who everyone here says are busts in LaVine and Dunn + a pick swap. Which delusion are you a part of?
Couple things, if they want Butler they are going need to add a player to match salary (Harris), we are going to need a young player back so one of their rookies, and hopefully you can get a pick back.
Lavine and Dunn where not busts last year, Now Lavine comes back and does really bad and did not get better on defense or anywhere noticable on offense. Dunn started and was a bottom 3 starting PG in the league and is now fighting with his 2nd head coach. Their value was higher has dropped since last year. If the Clippers add Butler they have a good shot at the playoffs so it would be a non lotto pick.
They would also be in the drivers seat to get Butler and Irving.
Re: Butler requests trade...
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:19 pm
by TheFuture
thedoper wrote:Is it me or is this board at its best when the team is totally dysfunctional?
Go Wolves.
It would be better if it wasn't filled with rationalizing fans. Oh, well this makes sense because of...
You draft the right people and add free agents when you know what you have and have the space. You can name 20 trades of an established star that didn't work out for every one that did.
Re: Butler requests trade...
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:23 pm
by TheFuture
All this franchise has done with this trade is further alienate itself to current and future players.
Lack of foresight for the non-benefit of the shortsighted.
Re: Butler requests trade...
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:25 pm
by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
kekgeek1 wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:TheFuture wrote:Q12543 wrote:kekgeek1 wrote:[q
kekgeek1 wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:A lot of NBA moves don't pan out.
I think the trade for Butler was a worthy effort to bring winning to a terrible, terrible NBA franchise that hadn't even been above .500 for 10+ years. It didn't pan out because of an ogre of a coach, a dick of a star player and probably some immaturity from other players... or many other reasons. But it wasn't a foregone conclusion. And
it's not like the guys traded in that deal are thriving at this point.
The shoe will ultimately drop. And Thibs and others will be held accountable. But the move itself made sense... a calculated risk.
I know I liked it better than when a non-basketball guy working as GM decided to recreate a New York Knicks backcourt from 1972 with two players who were nothing like those two players...
Couldn't agree more with this post
Yes, excellent take by Abe. Things look a little bleak right now, but it doesn't change my opinion that the trade for Buller was a worthy effort...and if Thibs (or his successor...please) is able to get some kind of value for him, either by trade or use of cap space, the deal will look even better. The three guys we gave up (assuming we would have taken Lauri at 7) were 3 of the top 4 MPG guys on a 27-55 team (down 14 wins from the Butler-led previous year's team). Dunn is already fighting with his coach, post-surgery Zach only made 38% of his shots (and only 34% of his threes), and 3-point ace Lauri was only at about the league average on 3-point %. We gave up almost nothing to improve by almost 16 wins and make the playoffs for the first time in over a decade, and avoided paying almost $20 million a year to a guy that nobody knows will ever be an average player after knee surgery.
Look, I'm not happy at all about the way this was handled...it's absurd to me that there wasn't more conversation all summer. But I agree with monster that this deal isn't over yet...I'm going to wait until I see the return for Butler before I offer a final opinion on the deal.