TRKO wrote:I don't think having one guy being the POBO and HC is a wise decision. I've never been a fan of giving one guy so much power. While getting Thibs or JVG seem like a huge get, and they are, I just don't think HCs make great GMs. I think a HCs mindset is a short term one while a GM has to constantly have the big picture in mind. I worry about robbing Peter to pay Paul just to win a few games in the near term with a guy that fills the dual role.
As far as Scott Brooks, I feel some team will offer him the moon in order to get Durant in free agency.
The reality is its not just hiring Thibs or JVG as the final decision maker but who do they bring on to be their guy doing the work when they are out coaching. Flip brought on Milt and at this point that seemed to be a solid get. SVG has Bower with the Pistons. Obviously if you give either of those guy the final say they will have it but I do think it matters (and is a wildcard) who they surround themselves with to help them make decisions. If they hire the right guys to help them then you maybe are just happy as a clam with Thibs making the final say because he has a really competent guy informing him helping him make decisions etc. maybe Milt ends up being that guy I have no idea but like you said it's still tricky having one guy having that much power.
TRKO wrote:I don't think having one guy being the POBO and HC is a wise decision. I've never been a fan of giving one guy so much power. While getting Thibs or JVG seem like a huge get, and they are, I just don't think HCs make great GMs. I think a HCs mindset is a short term one while a GM has to constantly have the big picture in mind. I worry about robbing Peter to pay Paul just to win a few games in the near term with a guy that fills the dual role.
As far as Scott Brooks, I feel some team will offer him the moon in order to get Durant in free agency.
The reality is its not just hiring Thibs or JVG as the final decision maker but who do they bring on to be their guy doing the work when they are out coaching. Flip brought on Milt and at this point that seemed to be a solid get. SVG has Bower with the Pistons. Obviously if you give either of those guy the final say they will have it but I do think it matters (and is a wildcard) who they surround themselves with to help them make decisions. If they hire the right guys to help them then you maybe are just happy as a clam with Thibs making the final say because he has a really competent guy informing him helping him make decisions etc. maybe Milt ends up being that guy I have no idea but like you said it's still tricky having one guy having that much power.
I'm from St Louis and am a Cardinals fan, Tony La Russa did have final say, pretty much like you laid out. I don't mind that per say. It's just real hard to be a great personnel person and a great coach at the same time. Both jobs take so much time and commitment and both jobs have different viewpoints. I'm not saying it can't work because there are many examples of it working.
Thibs wants the job badly. Jvg is open and interested in the job after years of turning down other opportunities. Are both qualified for both position? Hard to say. Both are proven coaches no doubt but has no POBO experiences.
We need to remember that flip was a former gm in his first stint with the team. He was exclusively the POBO in his first year back with Adelman as coach. He made some good draft picks and has a clear vision of the team before appointing himself as coach after adelman retired and after a coaching search and trading love away.
Thibs and jvg may be able to do a good job with the dual role they want but I still prefer a split role to be honest. I would be thrilled if we can get either one because I believed in them as coaches but they would have to prove themselves as POBO.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Just heard budenholzer (sp?) with Atlanta now holds the POBO gig, too.
And he's only been a head coach for a couple of years. Are we entering a period where the trend will be to have more dual type guys in charge?
I prefer breaking it up between people a bit
Most, if not all, head coaches want personnel decision making. Not only does it rid the chance of potential conflict between management, but they also get to coach the team they assembled. I feel like that's ideal.
And most teams have thrown those positions together to be able to attract high profile coaches. The trend will stay around as long as there's a worthy coach on the free market. Why would a head coach go somewhere he doesn't have full power over somewhere where he does? I'm sure you get the premise.
Phenom's_Revenge wrote:Maybe Korn Ferry is supposed to not only bring in candidates but more importantly evaluate their ability to fill dual roles, which Glen reportedly wants now.
As for Thibs, let's not overlook how things have been done in Chicago since the Phil Jackson days. It wasn't exactly a graceful parting. The Bulls have a reputation for being tough to work with.
I think Jon K. Made good points about why Glen brought on Korn Ferry to help with this process. Glen doesn't really have people to help him do that. He is a bit on an island he may even just need help setting up interviews doing all the background and all that stuff. Sure he has some people he could utilize in some way of his guys but hiring a legit company to help him makes a lot of sense.
Let's put Glen's position in perspective. Less than 7 months ago he lost the guy that was basically everything to this franchise and someone that he was also close to. A few months later he has something set up with Kaplan who would have himself been a nice resource and would have had more resources to help Glen with this summer and then...the prospective deal fell through literally weeks ago. So Glen was probably feeling a bit out of sorts not knowing what move to make having lost 2 partners in the space of less than 7 months. So it made sense he said what he did about Milt. Like Jon K said Glen probably got feed back from a variety of people that said you have a great opportunity here to figure out your direction this summer you need to figure out a way to make things happen. Glen is a big time guy he needs to be able to run with all this stuff and make the right decisions but this has not been an easy few months for him and so it's great that he is making the right moves now from what I can tell.
I'll say this LST about Sam that Honeslty I feel that all the time I spent agonizing over Sam made me realize that Ibwas convincing myself into the guy and ultimately I would probably preferred to move on even though I've continually been willing to keep an open mind about Sam and give him some credit where he was at the very least possibly due. To me the difference between Thins and Sam is
1. Pretty easy to make an argument Thins is a much better coach no matter how you slice it.
2. No matter how you slice it Sam was a dick for a big chunk of the season to media. Thibs might not be a dancing pony but I haven't heard of him being like that to the media.
3. If Thibs wants full control that's a different conversation and that's sort of the tough question for me with him.
I definitely understand where Jon K is coming from and agree with the premise. The question was raised before, why hire them at all when anyone could have made a list of Thibs, JVG, Brooks, and Joerger, etc. I think with the news that Glen is enamored with having a guy take dual roles, KF is probably actually tasked with discerning who is capable of such an arrangement.
I don't the think Glen has made up his mind on who to hire as head coach. Nor do I think he's already decided that it will be one of the two obvious candidates we've been discussing - Thibs and JVG. I'm certain that KF's role is two-fold.
First, Glen likely hired KF to develop a list of candidates beyond the obvious two or three everyone's talking about. Once Glen took this step to go outside the country club, it makes sense that he'd want to make sure he leaves no stone unturned, understanding that the best candidate may not be one of two or three obvious choices.
Second, Glen likely expects KF to provide an analysis of the candidates, comparing them to one another, describing each one's style and fit for the Wolves personnel and organizational culture. The analysis may or may not include advice on who to hire.
If it were me, I'd focus on Thibs, JVG, and Kevin Ollie. I'd interview all three and do a lot of behind the scenes, off the record digging on each. If I had to make a choice knowing what I know now, I'd go with JVG. Like Thibs he has a proven record of success as an NBA head coach, albeit not as recent. Both are excellent defensive coaches. Both are demanding and very smart. But in the end, I give the edge to JVG based on his personality -- his positive energy, his charisma and impressive communication skills.
Overall, I think JVG would wear better with mangement, the media, the community and, most importantly, the young players on this team. He has a great sense of humor and a positive, likable personality. In contrast, Thibs seems to have an overall negative vibe and an edge that would get old pretty quick -- probably around the time our young guys are up for their first post-rookie contracts. Not a good situation. I also like that JVG has a touch of humility that Thibs doesn't appear to have. For example, I liked hearing JVG say that if he coaches again he needs to improve as an offensive coach and he talked about bringing in assistants to help him in that area. Moreover, I like that Flip wanted JVG to coach this team. JVG and Izzo were the only two who Flip considered good enough and the right fit to coach this team. That matters because this is Flip's team. The success or failure of this team will turn on the progress and success of the guys he drafted- Wiggins, LaVine, Towns, Dieng and Bazz.
I do see the argument for Thibs. The guy can coach. But for this team in this community and for a long-term vision, I think JVG would be the much better choice. JVG would likely end up with the dual role as would Thibs as a necessary component of getting them here. I'm fine with that because I trust that JVG is a team player and he's humble enough to know he'd need a first rate front office staff that he could lean on.
If not JVG, then I'd probably take a different course and hire Kevin Ollie. What I like about Ollie is that he's smart -- the common thread that seems to run through all the best NBA head coaches.
In my perfect world, we hire JVG as PBO and head coach and then hire Ollie as JVG's top assistant. Not likely, but that would cause me to break into a happy dance.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Just heard budenholzer (sp?) with Atlanta now holds the POBO gig, too.
And he's only been a head coach for a couple of years. Are we entering a period where the trend will be to have more dual type guys in charge?
I prefer breaking it up between people a bit
Most, if not all, head coaches want personnel decision making. Not only does it rid the chance of potential conflict between management, but they also get to coach the team they assembled. I feel like that's ideal.
And most teams have thrown those positions together to be able to attract high profile coaches. The trend will stay around as long as there's a worthy coach on the free market. Why would a head coach go somewhere he doesn't have full power over somewhere where he does? I'm sure you get the premise.
Obviously I get the premise. That's why I laughed at any other coach being seriously considered here... other than Saunders... considering he was the one doing the hiring. Like I said all along, why wouldn't he want to be one of the most powerful/influential coaches?
My point is that at the time when Saunders too over... the dual role guys were minimal. But we've been hearing rumors surrounding Thibodeau and Van Gundy wanting the dual role (Jeff probably sees/hears about how great it is from his brother who got both jobs in Detroit recently). Now, Budenholzer.
So there seems to be a trend toward it happening even more. And it's still early enough for most of these guys, that we don't really know how well it works out. Although, I think they're all in the playoffs this season...
lipoli390 wrote:I don't the think Glen has made up his mind on who to hire as head coach. Nor do I think he's already decided that it will be one of the two obvious candidates we've been discussing - Thibs and JVG. I'm certain that KF's role is two-fold.
First, Glen likely hired KF to develop a list of candidates beyond the obvious two or three everyone's talking about. Once Glen took this step to go outside the country club, it makes sense that he'd want to make sure he leaves no stone unturned, understanding that the best candidate may not be one of two or three obvious choices.
Second, Glen likely expects KF to provide an analysis of the candidates, comparing them to one another, describing each one's style and fit for the Wolves personnel and organizational culture. The analysis may or may not include advice on who to hire.
If it were me, I'd focus on Thibs, JVG, and Kevin Ollie. I'd interview all three and do a lot of behind the scenes, off the record digging on each. If I had to make a choice knowing what I know now, I'd go with JVG. Like Thibs he has a proven record of success as an NBA head coach, albeit not as recent. Both are excellent defensive coaches. Both are demanding and very smart. But in the end, I give the edge to JVG based on his personality -- his positive energy, his charisma and impressive communication skills.
Overall, I think JVG would wear better with mangement, the media, the community and, most importantly, the young players on this team. He has a great sense of humor and a positive, likable personality. In contrast, Thibs seems to have an overall negative vibe and an edge that would get old pretty quick -- probably around the time our young guys are up for their first post-rookie contracts. Not a good situation. I also like that JVG has a touch of humility that Thibs doesn't appear to have. For example, I liked hearing JVG say that if he coaches again he needs to improve as an offensive coach and he talked about bringing in assistants to help him in that area. Moreover, I like that Flip wanted JVG to coach this team. JVG and Izzo were the only two who Flip considered good enough and the right fit to coach this team. That matters because this is Flip's team. The success or failure of this team will turn on the progress and success of the guys he drafted- Wiggins, LaVine, Towns, Dieng and Bazz.
I do see the argument for Thibs. The guy can coach. But for this team in this community and for a long-term vision, I think JVG would be the much better choice. JVG would likely end up with the dual role as would Thibs as a necessary component of getting them here. I'm fine with that because I trust that JVG is a team player and he's humble enough to know he'd need a first rate front office staff that he could lean on.
If not JVG, then I'd probably take a different course and hire Kevin Ollie. What I like about Ollie is that he's smart -- the common thread that seems to run through all the best NBA head coaches.
I agree with everything said here Lip. Either way the wolves are headed for greater things. So exciting.
