Minnesota Sports Forum

sjm34 wrote:Drew, are you saying that Wiggins and Lavine weren't trying to win. Because that is when I would have a problem with them. Short of that, understanding the situation, and reacting to it, doesn't really bother me.

I honestly didn't even see the game. I can't bear it these days. I'm just going off of LST's description. So no, I have no evidence that they weren't trying to win. That would definitely worry me. Wiggins in particular has been stepping up lately. It's too early to worry that he's a good numbers on a bad team guy.

But I still find it concerning if LST is right that they were happy despite all the losing. If they were sincerely upset, then I'd be a little more confident they (and Wiggins in particular) will reach their star potential. Combined with Wiggins' occasional passive play on the court this year, his happiness despite all the losing just makes me worried he might not have the killer instinct that could really help him enshrine himself as a franchise player and start taking this team deep into the playoffs year after year.

Some guys are actually TOO competitive at times. There's a dark side to MJ and Kobe that alienates others (though the championships would be nice!), Westbrook looks like he might be doing the same to some of his teammates. But I'd rather be worried that our young guys are too competitive than that they are not competitive enough.

The Wolves previous "losing culture" is because we drafted so poorly, didn't have a good head, and aren't a FA destination. We just need to not miss on our draft pick this year and things will start to turn around and hopefully this will be the last season we have to endure even entertaining the idea that losing is the most beneficial outcome for our teams future.

Q12543 wrote:I think if we had come down the stretch run and won a bunch of games we would all be royally pumped because it would likely be on the backs of our young guys. It's one thing to watch Wiggins and LaVine put up some nice games; it's another when they put up nice games, along with others, that are good enough to get us some wins. That's a whole other level of excitement and anticipation for next season.

I guess I have an easy time separating out Wiggins and Lavines play from the overall team so it doesn't bother me that they lose the game. I am more concerned with them being competitive. I also realize that the majority of the guys they are playing significant minutes with won't be on the floor next season if we are improving.

I honestly don't think Flip has been trying to tank. The way he got so heated after being accused of it would make no sense if he really was. It's just a combination of injuries, bad coaching, and bad management, plain and simple.

alexftbl8181 wrote:I honestly don't think Flip has been trying to tank. The way he got so heated after being accused of it would make no sense if he really was. It's just a combination of injuries, bad coaching, and bad management, plain and simple.

If we were playing for a playoff spot right now, how many of these "injured" players do you think would be on the court?

I don't think Flip went out of his way to win or lose necessarily. I think roster decisions came down to not having a meaningful game to play for a long time. Might as well sit these guys since they are not 100%. Either way, it looks like a top 4 pick is coming. Time for Flip to nail it and hopefully we can forget about this for a long long time.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

alexftbl8181 wrote:I honestly don't think Flip has been trying to tank. The way he got so heated after being accused of it would make no sense if he really was. It's just a combination of injuries, bad coaching, and bad management, plain and simple.

If we were playing for a playoff spot right now, how many of these "injured" players do you think would be on the court?

The ones who didn't have surgery, but you simply do not play guys in meaningless games who have been battling injury all year. For example it wouldn't be smart to keep playing Rubio if his ankle isn't healthy. That's more about being safe/cautious than it is flat out tanking IMO.

I don't think any of the players aren't taking the games seriously. You can tell by the way they play the game that they hate losing and are trying to win. They aren't running around playing lazy and laughing their way to the bench. I don't mind if they can still find a way to smile or laugh in the locker room after the game as long as the on court product isn't a joke. I want players on the team that give everything they have on the court and hate losing, but can still find a way to rise above the toxicity of losing and come out and try hard the next game. You don't want guys that get so buried in it they can't ever dig themselves out. That's what a losing culture looks like. These kids look like they have the ability to rise above it and find joy in playing the game. They are able to put losses behind them and focus on the next game. It's one thing I think Flip may have done a good job engendering in the team.

Very well said, gymrat. I was encouraged by the glimpses of behavior that I saw on TV after the Warriors game. While LaVine and Wiggins were appropriately glum in their post-game interviews, I couldn't help notice their smiles when they didn't think they were on camera. I didn't take it as not caring. I took it as not defeated. They had both just played phenomenal games against one of the best defensive teams in the league, and taken them down to the wire. Why wouldn't a couple 20 year old kids be thrilled with that game? It was the best of all possible worlds. They know that Flip wasn't able to put the real Wolves on the floor with all the injuries, so another loss didn't deflate them too much. Instead they were encouraged by their sensational games against an elite team. They have to be excited about both their future in this league and the Wolves' future.

Many of us believe Flip decided to go for the most ping pong balls he could once he realized that injuries had once again torpedoed any chance of challenging for the playoffs. and he did this in the most entertaining way possible...resting "injured" veterans that gave us a better chance of winning, but weren't as interesting to watch late in the season, and allowing not-quite-ready rookies to play key roles. It was a masterful job of soft tanking, and I think Flip should be commended for the good news we got last night.

No, more ping pong balls doesn't necessarily translate into a better draft position. But for this year, at least, we know this. If the Wolves and Knicks swapped their final position in the standings, the Knicks would be drafting 1st next month...and we would be drafting 4th.

Kudos to Flip for making moves over the past year that will result in us having three consecutive #1 picks on our roster!