Minnesota Sports Forum

We'll see what happens after we get embarrassed on national television tomorrow.

No thanks on Paul. The thing I hate about it is there is no retrade value if it goes bad. With DLO there should be value there if it isn't a perfect fit

thedoper wrote:I think the idea of building a real contender around KAT is a longshot. The only way to get there would be to strike Giannis-level gold in the draft or to start doing something. Slow and steady does nothing for us at this point. CP3 might not be it, but Jrue Holliday, McCollum or other devalued players need to be looked at if were ever actually going to look like a legit team.

Knee-jerk reaction on my part: BLOW IT UP!

- Abe is right. It's REALLY hard to build around an offensively gifted/defensively weak big man. On offense we've had three different coaches have a hard time getting him enough shots and he doesn't get the same kid-glove treatment on fouls that elite guards and wings get. And defensively, the Center is probably still the most important and influential position on the team. Let's face it, he's still a problem on that end of the floor.

- KAT is going to want out eventually anyway. Let's pre-empt him this summer and put him on the block. We would get a massive return.

- And while we're at it, can we try to get equal value for Wiggins as well? Our two max players simply don't have the defensive chops and mental toughness to lead a winner. Put each of them on teams that already have the right culture and leadership and I'm sure they would do just fine.

- People might say, rebuild again!?! But what difference does it make when we are missing the playoffs by a mile anyway!? I certainly don't have any sentimental attachment to KAT or Wig.

- There is a market inefficiency with bigs that are mobile and can defend (Vonleh in fact does this quite well at a very cheap price...not sure why he is totally out of the rotation). We don't need a great 2-way Center to build a great team.

- We need to put all our $ and draft focus into the guard/wing roles - ball handlers, shooters, disruptive defenders. We can get solid bigs on the cheap.

- Culver, Okogie, Nowell, and KBD isn't a horrible start. There is something to work with there. Add into that the haul we get back for KAT and we may not have to hit rock bottom to start something up again.

- Fire Saunders and let Rosas hire a coach of his choosing. With Wig and KAT gone, there is no more sentimental value in keeping Ryan around.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Would anyone take cp3?

Pros

He fills a position of need
Hes a leader
He makes the players around him better.
He can still defend.
Even at his age, hes still a helluva player
Cheap in the way of assets to acquire
(Teague+dieng should be enough)

Cons
$$$$$ the last year is going to suck.
Age, hes much older than our core
Personality clash with team, especially kat.

I'd for sure pass. But I'm more interested in longer term building a contender. CP3 does nothing but make us slightly better in the short term and then takes minutes from other guys we should be trying to develop for the future. So better short term, worse long term. No bueno.

Wolves fan laid it out pretty well how I feel. I'll add that I get the allure of adding an adult to the room there have also been reports of CP3 being fairly cantankerous to deal with at times. It's going to get old but I'm all in on this whole family happy deal the Wolves are trying out. If they truly turn down better talent because it doesn't quite fit their happy model then I'll even personally push back on it to some extent. Let's let this think play out for maybe a whole year and se where it goes. A little over a week ago it was looking good. There was always going to be a tough stretch like they are in now. Even the contender teams go through bad stretches of the season and obviously we don't have that kind of a roster.

I'm with you on this, Monster. As you said, let's let this thing play out for the rest of the season. Let's see our coaching staff try different players and combinations. Let's see Nowell and maybe Reid get extended runs with the NBA team. Let's see how things go when Layman returns. Let's see if Okogie's shooting continues to move in a positive direction. Let's see how Culver develops. Overall, let's see if this new coaching staff can actually develop players. Let's see if we can at least get a 2nd round pick for Teague by the deadline. Then let's see where we're at heading into next June's draft, assessing how our young guys performed during the season, looking at our draft position along with who's in the draft, exploring Covington's trade value and seeing what potential deals might be available to improve the team. Even Gorgui might have some trade value next summer with only one year left on his deal at that point.

I'm with you here Lip. I still think we will be a better team the 2nd half of the season provided we don't trade some key pieces away. I don't like the way we've played the last few games, but I'm far from discouraged.

This franchise has a storied history of going all-in when it decides to tank...

Some of the end-of-season losing streaks from the Wolves are amazingly bad (impressive/pathetic).

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:I think the idea of building a real contender around KAT is a longshot. The only way to get there would be to strike Giannis-level gold in the draft or to start doing something. Slow and steady does nothing for us at this point. CP3 might not be it, but Jrue Holliday, McCollum or other devalued players need to be looked at if were ever actually going to look like a legit team.

Knee-jerk reaction on my part: BLOW IT UP!

- Abe is right. It's REALLY hard to build around an offensively gifted/defensively weak big man. On offense we've had three different coaches have a hard time getting him enough shots and he doesn't get the same kid-glove treatment on fouls that elite guards and wings get. And defensively, the Center is probably still the most important and influential position on the team. Let's face it, he's still a problem on that end of the floor.

- KAT is going to want out eventually anyway. Let's pre-empt him this summer and put him on the block. We would get a massive return.

- And while we're at it, can we try to get equal value for Wiggins as well? Our two max players simply don't have the defensive chops and mental toughness to lead a winner. Put each of them on teams that already have the right culture and leadership and I'm sure they would do just fine.

- People might say, rebuild again!?! But what difference does it make when we are missing the playoffs by a mile anyway!? I certainly don't have any sentimental attachment to KAT or Wig.

- There is a market inefficiency with bigs that are mobile and can defend (Vonleh in fact does this quite well at a very cheap price...not sure why he is totally out of the rotation). We don't need a great 2-way Center to build a great team.

- We need to put all our $ and draft focus into the guard/wing roles - ball handlers, shooters, disruptive defenders. We can get solid bigs on the cheap.

- Culver, Okogie, Nowell, and KBD isn't a horrible start. There is something to work with there. Add into that the haul we get back for KAT and we may not have to hit rock bottom to start something up again.

- Fire Saunders and let Rosas hire a coach of his choosing. With Wig and KAT gone, there is no more sentimental value in keeping Ryan around.

Ouch. But I understand it.

Target Center will be empty (maybe literally) for awhile. But I get it. Unless this team magically finds an ELITE wing (Wiggins is not close, not even if he's what we saw early this year)... this team has a legit ceiling.

And that ceiling isn't going to be close to good enough to keep Towns anyway. So we can keep spinning wheels and slowly gaining a little bit of traction while driving perpetually uphill in a league that overcompensates for guards and dismisses big men... or remove the brakes entirely and let that baby careen downhill... probably leading to a horrific fiery crash.

I love being a Wolves fan.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:I think the idea of building a real contender around KAT is a longshot. The only way to get there would be to strike Giannis-level gold in the draft or to start doing something. Slow and steady does nothing for us at this point. CP3 might not be it, but Jrue Holliday, McCollum or other devalued players need to be looked at if were ever actually going to look like a legit team.

Knee-jerk reaction on my part: BLOW IT UP!

- Abe is right. It's REALLY hard to build around an offensively gifted/defensively weak big man. On offense we've had three different coaches have a hard time getting him enough shots and he doesn't get the same kid-glove treatment on fouls that elite guards and wings get. And defensively, the Center is probably still the most important and influential position on the team. Let's face it, he's still a problem on that end of the floor.

- KAT is going to want out eventually anyway. Let's pre-empt him this summer and put him on the block. We would get a massive return.

- And while we're at it, can we try to get equal value for Wiggins as well? Our two max players simply don't have the defensive chops and mental toughness to lead a winner. Put each of them on teams that already have the right culture and leadership and I'm sure they would do just fine.

- People might say, rebuild again!?! But what difference does it make when we are missing the playoffs by a mile anyway!? I certainly don't have any sentimental attachment to KAT or Wig.

- There is a market inefficiency with bigs that are mobile and can defend (Vonleh in fact does this quite well at a very cheap price...not sure why he is totally out of the rotation). We don't need a great 2-way Center to build a great team.

- We need to put all our $ and draft focus into the guard/wing roles - ball handlers, shooters, disruptive defenders. We can get solid bigs on the cheap.

- Culver, Okogie, Nowell, and KBD isn't a horrible start. There is something to work with there. Add into that the haul we get back for KAT and we may not have to hit rock bottom to start something up again.

- Fire Saunders and let Rosas hire a coach of his choosing. With Wig and KAT gone, there is no more sentimental value in keeping Ryan around.

Ouch. But I understand it.

Target Center will be empty (maybe literally) for awhile. But I get it. Unless this team magically finds an ELITE wing (Wiggins is not close, not even if he's what we saw early this year)... this team has a legit ceiling.

And that ceiling isn't going to be close to good enough to keep Towns anyway. So we can keep spinning wheels and slowly gaining a little bit of traction while driving perpetually uphill in a league that overcompensates for guards and dismisses big men... or remove the brakes entirely and let that baby careen downhill... probably leading to a horrific fiery crash.

I love being a Wolves fan.

The Wolves franchise has pretty much been a turnstile ever since the beginning so really we hardly know anything different but blowing things up less than 6 months into the latest change seems way too drastic for me. I get the idea and the reasoning to some extent but I'm sorry I can't buy into that right now. It feels like this franchise might actually have the things in place to actually be one of those teams that gets more out of its resources at all levels than the meh franchises.

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:I think the idea of building a real contender around KAT is a longshot. The only way to get there would be to strike Giannis-level gold in the draft or to start doing something. Slow and steady does nothing for us at this point. CP3 might not be it, but Jrue Holliday, McCollum or other devalued players need to be looked at if were ever actually going to look like a legit team.

Knee-jerk reaction on my part: BLOW IT UP!

- Abe is right. It's REALLY hard to build around an offensively gifted/defensively weak big man. On offense we've had three different coaches have a hard time getting him enough shots and he doesn't get the same kid-glove treatment on fouls that elite guards and wings get. And defensively, the Center is probably still the most important and influential position on the team. Let's face it, he's still a problem on that end of the floor.

- KAT is going to want out eventually anyway. Let's pre-empt him this summer and put him on the block. We would get a massive return.

- And while we're at it, can we try to get equal value for Wiggins as well? Our two max players simply don't have the defensive chops and mental toughness to lead a winner. Put each of them on teams that already have the right culture and leadership and I'm sure they would do just fine.

- People might say, rebuild again!?! But what difference does it make when we are missing the playoffs by a mile anyway!? I certainly don't have any sentimental attachment to KAT or Wig.

- There is a market inefficiency with bigs that are mobile and can defend (Vonleh in fact does this quite well at a very cheap price...not sure why he is totally out of the rotation). We don't need a great 2-way Center to build a great team.

- We need to put all our $ and draft focus into the guard/wing roles - ball handlers, shooters, disruptive defenders. We can get solid bigs on the cheap.

- Culver, Okogie, Nowell, and KBD isn't a horrible start. There is something to work with there. Add into that the haul we get back for KAT and we may not have to hit rock bottom to start something up again.

- Fire Saunders and let Rosas hire a coach of his choosing. With Wig and KAT gone, there is no more sentimental value in keeping Ryan around.

Even though i agree that we probably wont build a championship team with KAT, Im against blowing this team up. The idea that the only purpose of a professional sports team is to win a championship is ruining sports in my opinion. The primary goal is to compete and entertain. Lets get there first with KAT, establish that we have some professionalism in this franchise, then talk championship strategies.

I floated the idea of moving KAT last year and there wasn't much support for it. I saw Boston with their trove of assets and thought it would be a good way to jump start the inevitable. Now it's fairly easy to see you can't get to the mountaintop with an all offense, no defense big who lacks leadership qualities. If you move KAT, I think you also have to move Wig and start completely over. In theory this is a plan I could get behind, but I'm not holding my breath about it happening anytime soon.

And to add to that, blowing things up seems like twice the idea of trading for DLO and trying to make that collection of misfits work.

We can build a championship team around KAT. He's the only player I would say no to trades on at this time. Wiggins could gain potential equal value, not negative like he was before. He might be close to avg for his contract now, rather then way below.

KAT is type best 3P shooting big man in the game. You cannot underestimate how easy offense would be for any decently talented wing players when your big can space out and drain 3's at 40%. Yes he is still not great on defense, I doubt he will ever be great. He can be good enough.

You'll never solve your problems by getting rid of your only great player who is young and still improving.

Blow up everyone else, keep KAT.