Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden wrote:"Okafor isn't bullying guys on the court."

Shooting is largely the one thing that anyone can improve on simply by practicing. Is there anyone that would disagree with that? I doubt it, and Johnson has already shown a much better shot than he had with Team USA. He's getting results already. Thumbs up. You continue to overlook the FACT that Stanley still scores in other ways. I guess it's easier to overlook that when you're arguing against him.

Towns has everything needed to be effective in the post. Big body with length, good touch, jumper, good BBIQ. He just needs moves. He's never needed them in all honesty. Going back to HS he just beat the opponent with his physical gifts and occasional jumper, and in college he isn't asked to be "the guy". Hell, we've seen Gorgui develop good post moves. Why couldn't Towns?

I think Rubio would disagree....fairly loudly.

NBA teams will either have to double to take him out of the game which gives us an advantage or they'll let him go and we have a good post scorer to go to as part of our offense.

You're already assuming NBA teams will have to double team Okafor? I like Towns, Johnson, Russell, and Okafor but I wouldn't go as far as assuming that NBA teams will have to double team or change their defense against any of these 19 year old kids. I don't know if I have heard anyone talk about any college prospect like the way you are talking of Okafor. You're overhyping him more than the media, which would seem to be a nearly impossible task...

Camden0916 wrote:"Okafor isn't bullying guys on the court."

It's almost like you haven't watched college basketball this year.

"I think at worst that drops to 55% in the pros"

Well, that'd put him in the top-10 in the NBA in FG%. At worst? Come on now. Listen to yourself.

"Okafor learning to keep his hands up, challenge shots and how to be in the right spot defensively"

So, basically, he has to learn how to play defense? Got it.

"Okafor can fix his weakness just by watching tape and through normal NBA team practices."

What world do you live in? If it was that simple, every big in the NBA would be good on defense. Okafor has slow feet (and poor instincts) on defense. He'll need more than just watching tape and team practices. Doubt he ever fixes his feet honestly.

You make Okafor's weaknesses sound so easy to correct, but in reality, Towns' and Johnson's issues are easier to fix.

Shooting is largely the one thing that anyone can improve on simply by practicing. Is there anyone that would disagree with that? I doubt it, and Johnson has already shown a much better shot than he had with Team USA. He's getting results already. Thumbs up. You continue to overlook the FACT that Stanley still scores in other ways. I guess it's easier to overlook that when you're arguing against him.

Towns has everything needed to be effective in the post. Big body with length, good touch, jumper, good BBIQ. He just needs moves. He's never needed them in all honesty. Going back to HS he just beat the opponent with his physical gifts and occasional jumper, and in college he isn't asked to be "the guy". Hell, we've seen Gorgui develop good post moves. Why couldn't Towns?

If you are a wing who can't shoot 3's, you are of no use to this team. You can't play Ricky with another guy who can't shoot 3's. Johnson has taken 56 3's this year. That's a great sample size to go on. Wiggins doesn't shoot many 3's either. Are you just a fan of us getting destroyed in that category because it will continue if we get Johnson? Wiggins can already be a better two way player than Johnson so Johnson would be a redundant pick. Wiggins, Ricky, Johnson, Pek, Thad. Where's the 3 point shooting in that lineup that can keep up even remotely close with other teams? That is why we get blown out and lose. Our close games this year have been in games where the 3 point battle is close.

If you've watched Towns play, you'd realize he gets pushed out of position ridiculously easily on offense. He doesn't have the balance to become a good post player for years. How can you just say Towns has the IQ to learn offense, but Okafor is too dumb to learn defense? If anything from what I've seen, Towns is just a big guy using his athletic gifts to get his stats. I have yet to see an actual basketball player out of him like we can see with Okafor learning that post game. I've seen Towns get pushed around offensively way too easily at the college level to have faith that he will be much more than a big body pick and roll big in the NBA. I don't see him as a go to guy on offense.

The dumbest thing I have ever heard is that shooting from NBA 3 and developing a post game are easier to learn than how to be in good position defensively. You act like Johnson just has to shoot 200 3's a day and he will just become a better 3 point shooter. If that was the case every perimeter player in the league would be a good 3 point shooter.

I've watched Okafor multiple times this year and I have never seen him back someone down under the basket and dunk over them. He gets the ball, takes maybe one dribble push and makes his move. That's not how bullies operate in the post. Pek bullies guys in the post by backing them down with several dribbles to try to get better position. You honestly think a guy shooting 65% in college in the post is going to drop over 10% from the field just because he is going up against NBA size? The shots are all going to be coming from the same place in the pros as college so tell me how he magically forgets how to make 10+ percent of them. He's 270 so he's not going to be easily moved out of position and he can score on guys in multiple ways in the post. That really tells me his percentages are likely to plummet in the pros. Are you kidding me?

You can't teach size and a lot of players don't have the IQ to be good players on defense. That is why so many bigs aren't good defenders in the NBA. There are guys who know how to get into position, but don't have the size to do anything about it and there are guys who have the size, but don't have the IQ to be in the right spot to use it. You're assuming Okafor is too stupid to learn defense. I don't understand that, but that's your right. Defense is commonly something young players have to learn so I don't hold that against him because he falls in the boat with a lot of his peers.

The last thing I'll say is the fact that I'm just confused how you could talk up Parker and trash Wiggins so much last year and now you've flipped and are trashing the elite 1 way guy and praising the two way guys who are further behind offensively. The arguments I'm making for Okafor are the same you made for Parker last year and yet because I'm saying it and not you I am just wrong. That makes sense.

Master Summoner wrote:NBA teams will either have to double to take him out of the game which gives us an advantage or they'll let him go and we have a good post scorer to go to as part of our offense.

You're already assuming NBA teams will have to double team Okafor? I like Towns, Johnson, Russell, and Okafor but I wouldn't go as far as assuming that NBA teams will have to double team or change their defense against any of these 19 year old kids. I don't know if I have heard anyone talk about any college prospect like the way you are talking of Okafor. You're overhyping him more than the media, which would seem to be a nearly impossible task...

I don't think they'll double him out of the gate, but I think if they let him get comfortable in the post against NBA size there will be times next year they have to double him. There aren't many rookies that have ever warranted a double team, but I could see him doing it some of the time next year. That's just the nature of having a skilled big. They typically get doubled quicker because they are less mobile than a wing or guard to get around it and less likely to be able to pass out of it where doubles make sense at times. If Okafor drops 20 in a game, you don't think the other team would try to double him to slow him down and force turnovers? I don't see a situation where he never plays well enough against 1 on 1 defenders to never be doubled next year.

Edit: just noticed I did say out of the gate originally. Jumped the gun on that. I just think there will be times he does have to get doubled which helps our offense.

Camden wrote:
Towns has everything needed to be effective in the post. Big body with length, good touch, jumper, good BBIQ. He just needs moves. He's never needed them in all honesty. Going back to HS he just beat the opponent with his physical gifts and occasional jumper, and in college he isn't asked to be "the guy". Hell, we've seen Gorgui develop good post moves. Why couldn't Towns?

So Okafor needed to develop skills to dominate highschool kids because he was not physically gifted? The question to me is why hasn't Towns?

Kahns - When he gets doubles he already has shown he is a good passer out of the post with Duke. Only thing that keeps him from being a All-Star is injuries.

Somebody tell me this -- is Russell have Paul George potential? Or is he Mayo? Im still trying to figure out how good he is.
The safe pick if we win the lottery is Okafor. Just like Derrick was the safe second pick. Somehow this draft is even, makes me nervous, hard to say who will break out. All I know for sure is we dont need Mudaiy

Off the top of your head make me a list of bad shooters that went to the NBA and all of a sudden figured it out.. We know Ricky ain't one, not Brewer, Wes or Derek either. Seems to me , more guys loose their shooting stroke on the way to the NBA than gain one. ( ahem, see Stauskas)
Everyone seems to think that's so correctable. I don't see it that way. Shooting is a muscle memory action. Most of these guys have been shooting the same way since 4-5th grade.
Atleast coaches can put u in a position to succeed Defensively with the right schemes.

Russell has some Harden/Ginobili/Dragic/Mayo in him. George shouldn't even be in the conversation as a comparison for him. Russell's really good, though. I worry about him on defense too. Seems to fall asleep at times. Just too skilled offensively to ignore. Big production on that end.

PorkChop wrote:Off the top of your head make me a list of bad shooters that when to the NBA and all of a sudden figured it out.. We know Ricky ain't one, not Brewer, Wes or Derek either. Seems to me , more guys loose their shooting stroke on the way to the NBA than gain one. ( ahem, see Stauskas)
Everyone seems to think that's so correctable. I don't see it that way. Shooting is a muscle memory action. Most of these guys have been shooting the same way since 4-5th grade.
Atleast coaches can put u in a position to succeed Defensively with the right schemes.

There have been players who were decent/okay shooters in college who carried it over to the NBA, which is essentially what I've been saying over and over. Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, Victor Oladipo, Rudy Gay, etc. Stanley Johnson isn't a bad shooter; he just isn't a great one. I think you have to take into account the player's work ethic when projecting how they'll improve/regress at the next level. Oladipo took huge strides in his shooting at IU and has carried it over to the NBA. Wes Johnson, Derrick Williams just never seemed to have that dog in them. Unfair to all prospects if you just assume they'll regress, though.