Minnesota Sports Forum

longstrangetrip wrote:Grant does appear to be a terrific shooter, but I still subscribe to Q's theory that we need a distributor/defender to back up Rubio, and Grant is not a good defender. I'm not inclined to use assets to move up to pick a PG who is so skinny (6-5, 198) and unathletic, and has little upside as a 22 year old senior. I'm not keen on pairing a poor defender with Shabazz and Martin. I would prefer to hope that Deion Wright falls to us at 31. Sure, he's also skinny and a senior, but he is an excellent passer and defender and might not cost us anything to move up.

I'm not a pro scout, but I don't see Grant as unathletic. He shoots well, he distributes well, he has the bloodlines, he can play both guard spots. I think he would be projected higher if not for him being older. I like him better than Jones. With his size and length I think he can develop into a good defender too.

TRKO wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Grant does appear to be a terrific shooter, but I still subscribe to Q's theory that we need a distributor/defender to back up Rubio, and Grant is not a good defender. I'm not inclined to use assets to move up to pick a PG who is so skinny (6-5, 198) and unathletic, and has little upside as a 22 year old senior. I'm not keen on pairing a poor defender with Shabazz and Martin. I would prefer to hope that Deion Wright falls to us at 31. Sure, he's also skinny and a senior, but he is an excellent passer and defender and might not cost us anything to move up.

I'm not a pro scout, but I don't see Grant as unathletic. He shoots well, he distributes well, he has the bloodlines, he can play both guard spots. I think he would be projected higher if not for him being older. I like him better than Jones. With his size and length I think he can develop into a good defender too.

I think that's a fair assessment, TRKO. He's described as not a very good jumper and weak with his slight frame, but he's also described as having good lateral quickness. So even though he was not considered a good defender during his 4 years at Notre Dame, some agree with your assessment that he can develop into a good defender.

My position remains the same though. He's a 4-year guy who shot less than 31% on threes his senior year, and yet he's going to go somewhere in the teens...thus, it would cost us assets to get him. One might argue that even though he's not a long-range shooter, he's excellent mid-range, and that's what Flip's offense is all about. But I don't want to build our roster around Flip...I know that we are going to have a more modern coach, maybe as early as 2016-7, and mid-range shots will no longer be the focus. I'm not as high on Bjelica as others, so if some team would trade us a pick in the teens for him, I would be interested in Grant. But I wouldn't give up our seconds for him...there are guys projected to go in the 30s that I think have more upside than Grant.

TRKO wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Grant does appear to be a terrific shooter, but I still subscribe to Q's theory that we need a distributor/defender to back up Rubio, and Grant is not a good defender. I'm not inclined to use assets to move up to pick a PG who is so skinny (6-5, 198) and unathletic, and has little upside as a 22 year old senior. I'm not keen on pairing a poor defender with Shabazz and Martin. I would prefer to hope that Deion Wright falls to us at 31. Sure, he's also skinny and a senior, but he is an excellent passer and defender and might not cost us anything to move up.

I'm not a pro scout, but I don't see Grant as unathletic. He shoots well, he distributes well, he has the bloodlines, he can play both guard spots. I think he would be projected higher if not for him being older. I like him better than Jones. With his size and length I think he can develop into a good defender too.

I think the bottom line is you want a guy that can actually play not just looking for a certain profile. When I watched Grant play this year I wasn't thinking he was skinny he looked like a beast for a PG. He is a big PG. DX has him as one of the best passers in the draft and he has a low turnover rate. If I can get a big PG that can make reasonably good decisions with the ball and shoot good percentages I'll take that even if he isn't an above average (or even average) defender. Should we give up assets to get him? Idk depends on what it takes I guess.

longstrangetrip wrote:

TRKO wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Grant does appear to be a terrific shooter, but I still subscribe to Q's theory that we need a distributor/defender to back up Rubio, and Grant is not a good defender. I'm not inclined to use assets to move up to pick a PG who is so skinny (6-5, 198) and unathletic, and has little upside as a 22 year old senior. I'm not keen on pairing a poor defender with Shabazz and Martin. I would prefer to hope that Deion Wright falls to us at 31. Sure, he's also skinny and a senior, but he is an excellent passer and defender and might not cost us anything to move up.

I'm not a pro scout, but I don't see Grant as unathletic. He shoots well, he distributes well, he has the bloodlines, he can play both guard spots. I think he would be projected higher if not for him being older. I like him better than Jones. With his size and length I think he can develop into a good defender too.

I think that's a fair assessment, TRKO. He's described as not a very good jumper and weak with his slight frame, but he's also described as having good lateral quickness. So even though he was not considered a good defender during his 4 years at Notre Dame, some agree with your assessment that he can develop into a good defender.

My position remains the same though. He's a 4-year guy who shot less than 31% on threes his senior year, and yet he's going to go somewhere in the teens...thus, it would cost us assets to get him. One might argue that even though he's not a long-range shooter, he's excellent mid-range, and that's what Flip's offense is all about. But I don't want to build our roster around Flip...I know that we are going to have a more modern coach, maybe as early as 2016-7, and mid-range shots will no longer be the focus. I'm not as high on Bjelica as others, so if some team would trade us a pick in the teens for him, I would be interested in Grant. But I wouldn't give up our seconds for him...there are guys projected to go in the 30s that I think have more upside than Grant.

He also shot over 35% for his career and 40% as a junior. He has a good stroke and I think he should be able to extend his range. He was the guy at Notre Dame. I also like that about him.

I'd be very, very careful calling Grant nonathletic... And age doesn't always hold back a player, especially a guard that's carried his team practically every year in college.

Grant can't jump, but he does have good lateral movement, so unathletic is too strong a word. So even though he was a below average defender at Notre Dame, I agree that he could become a better defender.

But he's 6-5 and only 190 pounds at 22 after 4 years in the weight room in college, so it's difficult to project him ever not being skinny. He's going to get pushed around in the NBA. And even though he hit 40% of his college threes his junior year, he dropped to 31 % in his senior year on more than 4 attempts per game. What can we expect when he moves out to the NBA line? I think we can find someone better in free agency to back up ricky, or as I said above, hope that Wright drops to the second round.

His hops look fine to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slDqJd6jKAg

Camden wrote:His hops look fine to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slDqJd6jKAg

Grant strikes me more as a guy that jumps high when he needs or wants to, but doesn't use it all the time as a default tool. His movements all seem pretty compact and consistent. It's one way to be successful and not wasting energy.

I like this workout video from May.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt3ZN4Q0HwE

I don't mind a guy who is not overly explosive athletically. If that's what his consensus is from everyone else at least. I may be in the minority, but a PG who can run an offense, be physically over powering and able to pick his shots like my favorite PG, Sam Cassel did his whole career.

A smart PG who knows how to run an offense plus use his body to create shots and not be out of control is a blessing in my opinion.

I like Grant a lot for his fire. Not sure where he will end up on the draft board but would love him as an extra scoring option deep on the bench.