Minnesota Sports Forum

James Johnson got 4 years 60 million?!? Well...um ok.

My dream to get Ellington back home is likely alive after all!

Miami also signed olynyk for 4 yrs 50m. That is a good get for them.

Some bad contacts are starting to come in.

:)

https://twitter.com/bobbymarks42/status/883174604713414660

Tim Hardaway Jr. was traded for Jerian Grant who was traded for Derrick Rose who was renounced so NYK could sign Hardaway Jr. for $71M.

kekgeek1 wrote:Some bad contacts are starting to come in.

The Olynyk contract (4 yrs/$50 million) seems reasonable by today's NBA standards for a young skilled seven-footer who can stretch the floor. I also think the Teodosic deal was very reasonable at 2 years $12.3 million. But the James Johnson contract seems high to me. I thought Vince Carter at $8 million was too high, even through just for one year. The Knicks' deal with Tim Hardaway Jr. at $71 million over 4 years seems way over the top. So it's a bit of a mixed bag the last couple days. I would have loved to get Teo at the price the Clippers agreed to pay.

I hope Thibs continues to stand pat and then look for bargains after the dust settles. A number of teams are capping themselves out, which will put them on roughly the same footing as the Wolves -- shopping for bargains that fit within salary cap exceptions -- e.g., MLE, RE, Vet Minimum. We need to parley our RE and vet minimums to get at least a couple of the following: CJ Miles (unlikely at RE, but worth a try), Afflalo, Tyreke Evans, Thabo, Luke Babbit, Aaron Brooks, Ian Clark, Tyler Ennis, Leandro Barbosa, Isaiah Canaan, Anthony Morrow, James Young,

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:Some bad contacts are starting to come in.

The Olynyk contract (4 yrs/$50 million) seems reasonable by today's NBA standards for a young skilled seven-footer who can stretch the floor. I also think the Teodosic deal was very reasonable at 2 years $12.3 million. But the James Johnson contract seems high to me. I thought Vince Carter at $8 million was too high, even through just for one year. The Knicks' deal with Tim Hardaway Jr. at $71 million over 4 years seems way over the top. So it's a bit of a mixed bag the last couple days. I would have loved to get Teo at the price the Clippers agreed to pay.

I hope Thibs continues to stand pat and then look for bargains after the dust settles. A number of teams are capping themselves out, which will put them on roughly the same footing as the Wolves -- shopping for bargains that fit within salary cap exceptions -- e.g., MLE, RE, Vet Minimum. We need to parley our RE and vet minimums to get at least a couple of the following: CJ Miles (unlikely at RE, but worth a try), Afflalo, Tyreke Evans, Thabo, Luke Babbit, Aaron Brooks, Ian Clark, Tyler Ennis, Leandro Barbosa, Isaiah Canaan, Anthony Morrow, James Young,

Miami still has a cap hold for Babbit and It sounds like they are bringing him back so that dream is likely dead. I don't think he was coming here anyway as he is now basically considered a stretch PF.

I was looking at some random players and Tyler Ennis...man that guy really shot the ball well last year. I watched his highlight video from his time with the Lakers and...they should keep that guy. He really had a great change of pace and looked much quicker than I expected. I've always thought he could be a guy that becomes a nice player in the league because he was so young and accomplished at Cuse.

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:Some bad contacts are starting to come in.

The Olynyk contract (4 yrs/$50 million) seems reasonable by today's NBA standards for a young skilled seven-footer who can stretch the floor. I also think the Teodosic deal was very reasonable at 2 years $12.3 million. But the James Johnson contract seems high to me. I thought Vince Carter at $8 million was too high, even through just for one year. The Knicks' deal with Tim Hardaway Jr. at $71 million over 4 years seems way over the top. So it's a bit of a mixed bag the last couple days. I would have loved to get Teo at the price the Clippers agreed to pay.

I hope Thibs continues to stand pat and then look for bargains after the dust settles. A number of teams are capping themselves out, which will put them on roughly the same footing as the Wolves -- shopping for bargains that fit within salary cap exceptions -- e.g., MLE, RE, Vet Minimum. We need to parley our RE and vet minimums to get at least a couple of the following: CJ Miles (unlikely at RE, but worth a try), Afflalo, Tyreke Evans, Thabo, Luke Babbit, Aaron Brooks, Ian Clark, Tyler Ennis, Leandro Barbosa, Isaiah Canaan, Anthony Morrow, James Young,

Teodosic's deal is interesting, because he was clearly looking for more, discovered he came to the league at the worst possible time for a PG, and basically bet on himself by getting a 2 year deal with a player's option. If he sucks, he can opt in and make another 6 million in a second season. If he turns out to be great, he can go into next year's free agency and try to get one of those upper teens starting PG level contracts or at least double-digit good backup PG money. I wonder if the Clippers didn't offer him a little more per year on a 3-4 year deal, but he and his agent decided to go for the flexibility instead of the money. The Clippers might have a great deal for this one year, but then they could just lose it next year.

James Johnson was great for the Heat last year. He played 4 positions and was basically their backup PG as they made a playoff push at the end of the year and he was pretty good at it. I'm not surprised he got that money.

Hardaway does seem pretty over the top. That's a gamble that he'll turn into a well-above-average SG in the league. There's reason to be optimistic, but that's a gamble.

I'm not buying on Tyreke. He can't stay healthy at all and his improved shooting % is misleading because he's played so few games the last couple of years. For a vet minimum, ok, why not? But I wouldn't pay him any more than that.

Morrow used to be a good shooter, but isn't anymore and doesn't bring anything else to the table. James Young? He hasn't proven he even belongs in the league.

I think there will still be better players than those guys out there to be had. I hope!

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:There are still some big names or at least halfway decent players out there. There's not nearly enough cap space left out there to sign all these guys without paying them very little right? I'm underlining some shooters.

Noel (RFA)
Pau Gasol (is he resigning with the Spurs?)
KCP (is he not getting an offer? How much will the Pistons pay him?)
Derrick Rose (is he going to Milwaukee or not?)
Rondo (going to the Knicks?)
Ilyasova (man, this guy would be great value for a team right now!)
Hardaway (RFA, Atlanta will keep him)
Dedmon
Mirotic (is he staying with the Bulls?)
Johnson (he's gotta be staying with Miami, but do they still have the space to sign him? I think he's going to take little money, which could turn out to be a great deal for Miami)
Jonathan Simmons (going to NYK, Spur will probably match, right?)
Bogdanovic (RFA, but can the Wiz even match?)
BAZZ!
Jamychal Green (RFA)
Tony Allen
CJ Miles
Tyreke Evans
Deron Williams
Jerebko
Jeff Green
Beasley
Udoh (coming back from Turkey?)
Alan Williams (RFA, Phoenix will match, good player, really good player, actually)
Afflalo
Stuckey
Sefolosha
Tolliver (has he signed? another guy we could use)
Henderson
Barnes
Jason Terry
Derrick Williams (best almost dunker in NBA until Marquiss Criss)
Muscala
Babbitt
Dunleavy
Terrence Jones

http://hoopshype.com/2017/07/04/nba-free-agency-2017-the-top-players/

Definitely an impressive list, Drew. Here's my ranking in order of preference for the Wolves, limited to those who we might realistically be able to get with the RE:

1. Afflalo -- Best 2-way vet with 3-point range. Very consistent year to year. Not too old.
2. Tyrke Evans -- Injury history, but still great upside and improved 3-point shot.
3. Thabo -- Solid defender with some 3-point range and a bit of a scoring threat
4. Luke Babbit -- I like Tony Allen better overall, but we need 3-point shooting
5. Jason Terry -- Used to be a great 3-point shooting spark off the bench.

Here's my ranking of those we might realistically be able to get via a sign-and-trade involving our OKC pick:

1. Illyasova - $7.3M in a Cole + OKC pick might get it done. I might do this one.

2. CJ Miles -- We already know it would happen, but I'm glad Thibs is holding out on giving up our OKC pick. CJ isn't worth the pick in my view.

I think most people think Jason Terry is pretty much done. I disagree. He was a rotation player on a team that overachieved in the Bucks last year and made the playoffs. He shot over 42% on 3's even if they were a high volume I'll take it. He had 20 blocks last year which seems pretty good for an old undersized guard playing under 20mpg. He would be a nice addition for the vet min.

Yeah Terry was pretty good last year. The dude can still stroke it! Plus he can run the point if need be.

Also, Lip, mea culpa, I was basically just plagiarizing the names of the better players and shooters out of that list from hoops hype! I hope that long list and little money left means that we can get a couple good guys for only a little money.

Another reason why Teo might have taken the deal he did was he can opt out to go to another team. Jordan can opt out after this year and it may be possible that team is basically going nowhere. He may look for a better landing spot and if he proves to be a pretty good player even the full mid level from a team for over 8 million would be a pretty nice payday espcially if it was a multi year deal.

monsterpile wrote:

slimcalhoun27 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

slimcalhoun27 wrote:So since we are below the cap limit, we can't go above it? And since other teams are above they can continue to spend and stay above that level?

I'm confused on the max, cap ceiling, luxury tax levels and how the NBA doesn't punish more teams that spend like crazy (stupidly) and still add like Golden state has this summer. It's my real frustration with this league....players contracts are crazy out of control. Even the Taj at 14, Teague 18 and even Dieng at 15. Insane.

Appreciate the banter!

I'll try and make it a bit simple...maybe.

So if you are under the cap you can spend that money. According to the cap experts we are like a million bucks under the cap so that's nothing. Obviously because it's that little they will end up over the cap at some point.

It's confusing to me about when you can get the exceptions but here they are.

If you are over the cap and in the lux tax you have a 5 million exception. This is what a team like Golden state has.

If you are over the cap to begin things but not in the lux tax you can spend about 8 million.

If you end up over the cap after making signings then you have the room exception at around 4 million. This is basically all the Wolves have.

There is also the Bi annual exception (BAE) which can be used every other year and it's like 2 million or something. It doesn't seem that the Wolves have this so they much have used it last year.

Some of the other moving around using cap holds and all that...way to complcated to explain writing stuff out and I don't always get it either.

The problem with the Wolves is that they were pretty far under the cap so they don't get the bigger exception like other teams so they will be down the food chain for money this year. Next year they will have the bigger exception to be able to get guys. Hopefully this year they can add one solid player with their 4 million dollar exception and find some solid players with the vet min. I would think Rush would be a guy that would sign for that if he wants to play here.

Thanks brother. Thanks for the insight guys. Not a fan of this new system and cap levels for teams who are responsible.

The way the exceptions work are not much different than the previous CBA actually. One quirk is that the exceptions are a little higher now than they would have been because they amounts were locked in with the CBA and they didn't go down even though the cap went down and they will rise at the same rate each year.

It is kinda funny the teams that are in the middle ground get the most money to spend with their exception but it basically almost encourages them to be in the lux tax! Lol

I'm an idiot. I still don't understand this. How exactly can you go over the cap (the regular cap, not the lux tax threshold) if you are under it like we are?

[list]
[*] Is it only with exceptions?
[*] Can you go over with extensions of current players who were making less?
[*] Can you go over the cap through a trade or free agent signing?
[/list]

I guess I'd have the same questions about the luxury tax threshold as well.