Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Better team won. Tatum is a nice player. Cant help thinking we just keep drafting wings wings wings wings

Right now starting Centers if everything held. Bam, Thies, mcgee, zabac.

Wings win in NBA.

I mean, leaving out Anthony Davis by specifying "centers" is pretty choosy.

The main issue is that there just aren't that many dominant bigs in the game right now. That's a big reason why teams started finding ways to play and win without them. Necessity. Not because they can't win with them.

To be fair, Davis wasn't winning a ton without arguably the game's second best player ever... who happens to be a creative wing.

Anthony Davis has been the better player during these playoffs... but I guess he's being dragged to the conference finals?

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Better team won. Tatum is a nice player. Cant help thinking we just keep drafting wings wings wings wings

Right now starting Centers if everything held. Bam, Thies, mcgee, zabac.

Wings win in NBA.

I mean, leaving out Anthony Davis by specifying "centers" is pretty choosy.

The main issue is that there just aren't that many dominant bigs in the game right now. That's a big reason why teams started finding ways to play and win without them. Necessity. Not because they can't win with them.

Since 2010 there has been 1 all nba center to make the conference finals in the same year they were All NBA

Correct. There just hasn't been that many dominant bigs over the last decade. You're proving my point.

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Better team won. Tatum is a nice player. Cant help thinking we just keep drafting wings wings wings wings

Right now starting Centers if everything held. Bam, Thies, mcgee, zabac.

Wings win in NBA.

I mean, leaving out Anthony Davis by specifying "centers" is pretty choosy.

The main issue is that there just aren't that many dominant bigs in the game right now. That's a big reason why teams started finding ways to play and win without them. Necessity. Not because they can't win with them.

To be fair, Davis wasn't winning a ton without arguably the game's second best player ever... who happens to be a creative wing.

Anthony Davis has been the better player during these playoffs... but I guess he's being dragged to the conference finals?

That's a reach. I don't think anybody is saying that... I'm certainly not.

But it might be prudent to point out that not every big man gets to play with the game's 2nd best player ever. I'm sure Davis would have finally broken through in New Orleans with a new cast eventually. He's THAT good.

But it's simply not as easy. Davis won more than 34 games only twice in 7 seasons in New Orleans. Up North, Towns has won more than 36 games once in 5 seasons. Call it ridiculously bad luck or whatever... but you simply don't see the game's best wings struggling to win games to that degree.

Sure, I'm sure you can win with a star big man as the best player on your team. But recent history tells us that it's much much more likely your team will be successful when it's a star wing that's the best player on your team.

I think Davis is great, but we have KAT. My comment wasnt aimed to say there's no place for bigs. I just think moving forward we should start loading up on athletic wings.

What Denver has done with Jokic and Murray, the Wolves should be able to do with KAT and Russell. It's a matter of surrounding them with enough complementary talent and having a really good head coach. Ideally, we'd have an all-star caliber two-way wing, SG or SF, playing with KAT and Russell. Anthony Edwards has the physical tools a skill set to eventually be that guy if he can find a consistently high-revving motor inside himself. He'd be the athletic wing that could really help this team. But short of that, surrounding KAT and Russell with a number of high-caliber role players, coupled with really good coaching, could make this team a contender over time.

lipoli390 wrote:What Denver has done with Jokic and Murray, the Wolves should be able to do with KAT and Russell. It's a matter of surrounding them with enough complementary talent and having a really good head coach. Ideally, we'd have an all-star caliber two-way wing, SG or SF, playing with KAT and Russell. Anthony Edwards has the physical tools a skill set to eventually be that guy if he can find a consistently high-revving motor inside himself. He'd be the athletic wing that could really help this team. But short of that, surrounding KAT and Russell with a number of high-caliber role players, coupled with really good coaching, could make this team a contender over time.

I think role players are easier to acquire by trade and free agency. Starting caliber wings with high upside are not. For a team like ours we have a chance at role players, Rosas managed that with Beasley. Id like us to come out of this draft with 2 high upside wings. Whether it is Edwards, Vassell, Nesmith or some combination of those players and/or someone else that would be the ideal situation for me.

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:What Denver has done with Jokic and Murray, the Wolves should be able to do with KAT and Russell. It's a matter of surrounding them with enough complementary talent and having a really good head coach. Ideally, we'd have an all-star caliber two-way wing, SG or SF, playing with KAT and Russell. Anthony Edwards has the physical tools a skill set to eventually be that guy if he can find a consistently high-revving motor inside himself. He'd be the athletic wing that could really help this team. But short of that, surrounding KAT and Russell with a number of high-caliber role players, coupled with really good coaching, could make this team a contender over time.

I think role players are easier to acquire by trade and free agency. Starting caliber wings with high upside are not. For a team like ours we have a chance at role players, Rosas managed that with Beasley. Id like us to come out of this draft with 2 high upside wings. Whether it is Edwards, Vassell, Nesmith or some combination of those players and/or someone else that would be the ideal situation for me.

Doper - I agree with you. A mid-market cold-climate franchise like the Wolves generally needs to rely on the draft for stars, but can rely on free agency and trades for role players. So your approach to the draft makes a lot of sense. I'd quibble a bit with which prospects fit the mold of the player with star potential who the Wolves should target in this year's draft. I like Vassell a lot and i also like Nesmith. But I see them more as good role players in the NBA. Edwards, on the other hand, clearly has star/perennial all-star potential. If the Wolves take your approach to the draft, using it to acquire potential stars, then they should look to draft Edwards, Wiseman or Ball - and maybe Okongwu, Patrick Williams or Deni.

I have no doubt about the star potential of the first three (Edwards, Wiseman, Ball). The only question I have about all three is whether they have the competitive drive, motor and basketball IQ to reach their full potential as NBA stars. I'm less sure about the upside of Okongwu, Williams and Deni, but I see all of them having star potential and I also see them having a higher probability of achieving their full potential. Of these three, I see so much Bam in Okongwu that I can't help but see him as having a very good chance of becoming an NBA allstar. I'm less sure about Williams and Deni. I love the potential of Williams. He's probably the least NBA ready of the group, but I see some Kawhi in him.

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:What Denver has done with Jokic and Murray, the Wolves should be able to do with KAT and Russell. It's a matter of surrounding them with enough complementary talent and having a really good head coach. Ideally, we'd have an all-star caliber two-way wing, SG or SF, playing with KAT and Russell. Anthony Edwards has the physical tools a skill set to eventually be that guy if he can find a consistently high-revving motor inside himself. He'd be the athletic wing that could really help this team. But short of that, surrounding KAT and Russell with a number of high-caliber role players, coupled with really good coaching, could make this team a contender over time.

I think role players are easier to acquire by trade and free agency. Starting caliber wings with high upside are not. For a team like ours we have a chance at role players, Rosas managed that with Beasley. Id like us to come out of this draft with 2 high upside wings. Whether it is Edwards, Vassell, Nesmith or some combination of those players and/or someone else that would be the ideal situation for me.

Doper - I agree with you. A mid-market cold-climate franchise like the Wolves generally needs to rely on the draft for stars, but can rely on free agency and trades for role players. So your approach to the draft makes a lot of sense. I'd quibble a bit with which prospects fit the mold of the player with star potential who the Wolves should target in this year's draft. I like Vassell a lot and i also like Nesmith. But I see them more as good role players in the NBA. Edwards, on the other hand, clearly has star/perennial all-star potential. If the Wolves take your approach to the draft, using it to acquire potential stars, then they should look to draft Edwards, Wiseman or Ball - and maybe Okongwu, Patrick Williams or Deni.

I have no doubt about the star potential of the first three (Edwards, Wiseman, Ball). The only question I have about all three is whether they have the competitive drive, motor and basketball IQ to reach their full potential as NBA stars. I'm less sure about the upside of Okongwu, Williams and Deni, but I see all of them having star potential and I also see them having a higher probability of achieving their full potential. Of these three, I see so much Bam in Okongwu that I can't help but see him as having a very good chance of becoming an NBA allstar. I'm less sure about Williams and Deni. I love the potential of Williams. He's probably the least NBA ready of the group, but I see some Kawhi in him.

Lip, I'm not so sure about the Bam comparisons with Okongwu. The stats are similar in college, but Bam has completely outperformed even the most optimistic expectations, so I think it's kind of dangerous to make that comparison. Nine times out of ten a guy with those college stats becomes a solid NBA player, a great bench guy or a defensive starter to put next to a star. Probably not an All Star, especially these days. Not only has Bam totally outperformed the college statline that is similar to Okongwu's, but even coming out of college, he definitely had better handles, was a little more athletic, and showed shades of the passing he's really developed in the last year.

I like Okongwu a lot. He does remind me of lunch-bucket type guys I've always loved, like a more athletic Taj. Maybe he could end up being a bit of an early-career Serge Ibaka before he started trying to stretch the floor, hopefully with some ability to switch out and defend the perimeter a bit. We do need a defender next to KAT. If we could trade down, I could maybe get on board (although I'd lean toward Vassell). But from what I've seen, I think the Bam comparisons are setting up an eventual disappointment in Okongwu. Bam just seems so much more versatile with his handles and passing. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, and if we did take him, I'd hope like hell I'm wrong. But I just don't see the handles and passing that make Bam much more than an athletic, high-energy defender who rebounds and dunks well. I guess my comment is more about how much I like Bam than how many doubts I have about Okongwu, but personally, I'm not (yet) able to get on board with that comparison.

I hope Rosas is watching what's happening to Houston and realizes that it's never gonna lead to a championship. Being in Houston's staff is one thing, but I hope he has a different perspective now that he's not there and reevaluates his entire philosophy.

Psst... maybe Houston wins this series if they have Clint Capela.