Camden wrote:Let's also not forget that Van Gundy scorned the Bulls organization for how they handled the Thibs situation. He wasn't treated fairly on his way out and they really did a damage to his image. The way some on the board talk about him are examples of this.
I don't want to put words in your mouth, so let me ask you. Would you say the Bulls were 90% culpable, and Thibodeau 10%? Or would you attach some other percentage?
Let's keep in mind that none of us really know exactly what went down in Chicago. All we can go off of are the reports from those that had some connection to the situation. And I think it's safe to say there was issues on both sides.
I can't pin a number on it, but the majority of the discussion has been about how difficult Thibs is to work with, how he can't adapt, how he's stubborn, how he's incapable of working with management. All this talk about Thibs, but it gives the Bulls as an organization a free pass as though they couldn't possibly be guilty in the matter. I think that's foolishness.
If he's so damn difficult to work with, why is he on the Team USA coaching staff, which is made up of other high profile coaches such as Coach K and Mike D'Antoni? Why does Doc Rivers love him? Why does Jeff Van Gundy love him? You can't talk about his inability to work with others because of the Chicago situation and ignore all the other successful environments he's been in and there was never a problem. That's only done to fit an agenda.
Also, someone please provide examples of Thibs being a pain in the ass to media. I don't know where that misconception came from. He's always provided K.C. Johnson and the Chicago media with whatever they needed. He's always been accountable when his team lost or showed poor execution. Oh, and why did he make the rounds with Bill Simmons, Zach Lowe and other media members this year if he's such a poor sport with the media? None of that adds up. Again, it's just to fit an agenda.
C'mon Cam. That describes you to a "T" in this, and just about any crusade you take up on this board.
Fine. I'm pushing my own agenda. To combat some of the nonsense that's said about Thibs. There are concerns, I don't disagree with that, but a lot of the talk about him is overdramatic.
Also, pot calling the kettle black. You do the same shit I do. Let's not get into that.
Okay I do. But you're the one calling out others for doing it.
Wait, so what are you doing right now?
Seriously? I know you're not stupid, so why do I feel I have to explain this? YOU, YES YOU went on a rant about people having agenda driven takes. I simply pointed out you do the same thing. End of story.
The back and forth about Thibs (Cam even said there are some concerns about him) and JVG (been out of the league can he coach offense) among other things makes it understandable why a guy like Brooks makes sense. It also is a driving force as to why some people wish (along with rainbows and unicorns) for the young up and comer type coach.
Each of us has a position with varying concerns about any of the routes. Personally despite all the concerns about Thibs I think it's pretty hard to pass up a guy that to me seems like the clear best coach available. It wasn't that long ago zones dreaming this franchise could get Rick Adelman and yew haw!!! it happened...and sadly it worked out really poorly in the end.
At this point it feels like we have a top (if not #1 overall) pick in the coaching draft and there are a number of options. I bring up the draft because I do think this coaching selection is going to have good options but it's possible that even if the Wolves select a candidate that looks like a very very good option it may not work out. There is some uncertainty. This isn't a no-brainer draft. There is no Lebron James and I don't even think it's as obvious as Towns was last year. It's a good draft but I wouldn't say it's a super duper one either and I like a lot of the options. Various people are all in on certain guys and that's cool. At this point I am gonna have to leave this process up to Glen and KF and the process. That's a bit scary but I do feel better that Glen reached out for help putside of himself and is also looking outside the organization. I feel like there is a decent chance we get this right. They actually have good options.
Camden wrote:Let's also not forget that Van Gundy scorned the Bulls organization for how they handled the Thibs situation. He wasn't treated fairly on his way out and they really did a damage to his image. The way some on the board talk about him are examples of this.
I don't want to put words in your mouth, so let me ask you. Would you say the Bulls were 90% culpable, and Thibodeau 10%? Or would you attach some other percentage?
Let's keep in mind that none of us really know exactly what went down in Chicago. All we can go off of are the reports from those that had some connection to the situation. And I think it's safe to say there was issues on both sides.
I can't pin a number on it, but the majority of the discussion has been about how difficult Thibs is to work with, how he can't adapt, how he's stubborn, how he's incapable of working with management. All this talk about Thibs, but it gives the Bulls as an organization a free pass as though they couldn't possibly be guilty in the matter. I think that's foolishness.
If he's so damn difficult to work with, why is he on the Team USA coaching staff, which is made up of other high profile coaches such as Coach K and Mike D'Antoni? Why does Doc Rivers love him? Why does Jeff Van Gundy love him? You can't talk about his inability to work with others because of the Chicago situation and ignore all the other successful environments he's been in and there was never a problem. That's only done to fit an agenda.
Also, someone please provide examples of Thibs being a pain in the ass to media. I don't know where that misconception came from. He's always provided K.C. Johnson and the Chicago media with whatever they needed. He's always been accountable when his team lost or showed poor execution. Oh, and why did he make the rounds with Bill Simmons, Zach Lowe and other media members this year if he's such a poor sport with the media? None of that adds up. Again, it's just to fit an agenda.
C'mon Cam. That describes you to a "T" in this, and just about any crusade you take up on this board.
Fine. I'm pushing my own agenda. To combat some of the nonsense that's said about Thibs. There are concerns, I don't disagree with that, but a lot of the talk about him is overdramatic.
Also, pot calling the kettle black. You do the same shit I do. Let's not get into that.
Okay I do. But you're the one calling out others for doing it.
Wait, so what are you doing right now?
Seriously? I know you're not stupid, so why do I feel I have to explain this? YOU, YES YOU went on a rant about people having agenda driven takes. I simply pointed out you do the same thing. End of story.
Cool, I mentioned twice in the same post about people saying things that fit their agenda. Then you did the same thing by mentioning that I say things to fit my agenda. You literally did the same thing I did just now. Why are you blowing this up? Not only does it ruin the context of my original post, but it's steering this thread off course.
Well Atkinson is gone to Brooklyn. He was the best among first timers and probably my only consideration from those groups as this point. He was in my top 4 and I will be stoked with any of the other 3, Thibs, JVG, or Joerger. I hope Glen does not overthink it and takes a proven commodity at this stage of development. Although they may have warts, so will any unearthed gem out there and they may not have such redeeming qualities.Fortunately Thibs and JVG want to be here so make it happen.
Is an opinion on an issue an agenda? I doubt anyone has the influence to affect change. Unless we are afraid that other posters might agree with a on. Some funny language being used here. This isn't geopolitics. I think everyone has been very consistent to say Thibs would be a good coach, but there have been multiple media reports that he wears people thin. That isn't an agenda, it is just recognizing what of the little window we have about these people.
The good thing is that for once I am supportive of the process Taylor is using. I am sure if Thibs ends up being the guy they will address these potential issues.
thedoper wrote:Is an opinion on an issue an agenda? I doubt anyone has the influence to affect change. Unless we are afraid that other posters might agree with a on. Some funny language being used here. This isn't geopolitics. I think everyone has been very consistent to say Thibs would be a good coach, but there have been multiple media reports that he wears people thin. That isn't an agenda, it is just recognizing what of the little window we have about these people.
The good thing is that for once I am supportive of the process Taylor is using. I am sure if Thibs ends up being the guy they will address these potential issues.
It is pushing an agenda when there's a claim that Thibs is anti-media even though there's a valid argument to disprove that claim whereas I have yet to see any examples of him being Sam Mitchell to the media posted. I also think it's fair to be concerned about how Thibs acted towards management, BUT you also have to bring up that Chicago's FO isn't necessarily easy to work with.
Also, LST pretty much said Thibs would fizzle out in the league as a head coach and eventually be a great assistant coach that anyone would be glad to have. That's not really an endorsement of any kind when you think about Thibs and his 255-139 record as an NBA head coach.
thedoper wrote:Is an opinion on an issue an agenda? I doubt anyone has the influence to affect change. Unless we are afraid that other posters might agree with a on. Some funny language being used here. This isn't geopolitics. I think everyone has been very consistent to say Thibs would be a good coach, but there have been multiple media reports that he wears people thin. That isn't an agenda, it is just recognizing what of the little window we have about these people.
The good thing is that for once I am supportive of the process Taylor is using. I am sure if Thibs ends up being the guy they will address these potential issues.
It is pushing an agenda when there's a claim that Thibs is anti-media even though there's a valid argument to disprove that claim whereas I have yet to see any examples of him being Sam Mitchell to the media posted. I also think it's fair to be concerned about how Thibs acted towards management, BUT you also have to bring up that Chicago's FO isn't necessarily easy to work with.
Also, LST pretty much said Thibs would fizzle out in the league as a head coach and eventually be a great assistant coach that anyone would be glad to have. That's not really an endorsement of any kind when you think about Thibs and his 255-139 record as an NBA head coach.
What is the agenda? To convince internet posters of an opinion? There are media people who have said Thibs is crusty, but you argument has weight too. It is just someone giving there opinion which is supported by some (albeit not all) media.
You take counter opinions quite personally, no one has an "agenda" just because they disagree with you.
When Cam mentioned pushing an agenda... I thought he meant the Chicago brass. Because there's a very good chance that's where most of the antiThibodeau stuff comes from.
If so... Kudos to the Bulls public relations team. It did its job well
I think what he meant was posters who are against hiring Thibodeau are driving their agenda by bringing up the negative reports on him. And his belief is those reports are baseless.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:When Cam mentioned pushing an agenda... I thought he meant the Chicago brass. Because there's a very good chance that's where most of the antiThibodeau stuff comes from.
If so... Kudos to the Bulls public relations team. It did its job well
There were multiple media reports at the time which cited unsourced players exhaustion with This. All cited here a long time ago. Yes no players went on record but that shouldn't be a surprise.
