Wolves Offseason Forward Options

[Mnwild1128]

At this point, to me, Tobias is not worth more than the tax payer mid level. He is primed to start Batum'ing it around the league.

[Lipoli390]

I don't disagree with anything you stated, but I think having a quality PF is more important at this point and the maturity is important with this squad. I don't think Ayo is scratching the surface as LIp says because other than having a hot season shooting the 3 he hasn't really improved in his five seasons. I also don't like his contract. I think we overpaid by 3-4 mil per year, but worse is the five years with a player option as well. What team gives their bench player that kind of deal.

Donte isn't likely to come back at full strength, and where will he get minutes if Ayo is backing up Melo and Ant? We have plenty of guards at this point and we know Finch isn't willing go deep into his bench (regardless of what he says).

How may team friendly deals do we get!

Maybe Ayo isn’t scratching the surface of his potential. But even if he’s as good as he’ll ever be, he’s going to be a huge positive for this team next season and beyond. let’s take a look at his numbers. Last season (Bulls and Wolves combined), Ayo played 27 minutes per game and averaged 15 points, 3.6 assists, and 3.4 rebounds with a field goal percentage of 51.7% which is outstanding for a guard and higher than Tobias Harris’s 47%. Ayo had a 3-point percentage of 44%, which is elite. He also defends and pushes pace. I agree we should acquire a PF, but giving up a 26 year old guard who puts up numbers like that for a 34 year old PF who’s less efficient from the field makes no sense. I think we need to acquire a solid PF for our rotation, perhaps as a starter, but we’re not desperate and there are plenty of options out there that will be obtainable through a Josh Green trade or via the taxpayer MLE.

Maybe some people haven't been aware of Ayo before this last season but he has been a good player for quite a while. He is a defender that's how he got minutes and he also is very efficient for a guard with an almost 60% TS percentage.

I'm a big fan of Tobias Harris and would be happy to have him on this roster. I don't know what I would be willing to pay him. It would not be a whole lot more than 15 million a year and probably not for more than 2 years.

That’s my thinking, too, Monster.

[Lipoli390]

At this point, to me, Tobias is not worth more than the tax payer mid level. He is primed to start Batum'ing it around the league.

If you’re right, Mnwild, then the Wolves should have that full taxpayer MLE offer on the table already and TC should be on a plane with Ant and Rudy to wine and dine him. I think Tobias will get something close to the nontaxpayer MLE. I could see the Lakers snatching him up.

[60WinTim]

At this point, to me, Tobias is not worth more than the tax payer mid level. He is primed to start Batum'ing it around the league.

If you’re right, Mnwild, then the Wolves should have that full taxpayer MLE offer on the table already and TC should be on a plane with Ant and Rudy to wine and dine him. I think Tobias will get something close to the nontaxpayer MLE. I could see the Lakers snatching him up.

I keep coming back to Josh Green's salary being used to acquire a PF, but that TJ Shannon is the only sweetener TC has left in his gun belt to make it happen. I kind of hope I am wrong, but I've already resigned myself to TJ's departure...

[Q-is-here]

At this point, to me, Tobias is not worth more than the tax payer mid level. He is primed to start Batum'ing it around the league.

If you’re right, Mnwild, then the Wolves should have that full taxpayer MLE offer on the table already and TC should be on a plane with Ant and Rudy to wine and dine him. I think Tobias will get something close to the nontaxpayer MLE. I could see the Lakers snatching him up.

I keep coming back to Josh Green's salary being used to acquire a PF, but that TJ Shannon is the only sweetener TC has left in his gun belt to make it happen. I kind of hope I am wrong, but I've already resigned myself to TJ's departure...

What's the marginal return on an incremental dollar spent on a PF? I think it diminishes quite steeply after you get past the vet minimum on our team.

The things NBA teams pay dearly for are high usage scorers (Ant), lead guards (Ball), elite defensive Centers (Rudy), and two-way big wings (Jaden). With all those higher order functions largely covered, what is a $17-$20M PF going to give us that is worth giving up TJ vs. keeping TJ and signing a $6M PF?

[60WinTim]

If you’re right, Mnwild, then the Wolves should have that full taxpayer MLE offer on the table already and TC should be on a plane with Ant and Rudy to wine and dine him. I think Tobias will get something close to the nontaxpayer MLE. I could see the Lakers snatching him up.

I keep coming back to Josh Green's salary being used to acquire a PF, but that TJ Shannon is the only sweetener TC has left in his gun belt to make it happen. I kind of hope I am wrong, but I've already resigned myself to TJ's departure...

What's the marginal return on an incremental dollar spent on a PF? I think it diminishes quite steeply after you get past the vet minimum on our team.

The things NBA teams pay dearly for are high usage scorers (Ant), lead guards (Ball), elite defensive Centers (Rudy), and two-way big wings (Jaden). With all those higher order functions largely covered, what is a $17-$20M PF going to give us that is worth giving up TJ vs. keeping TJ and signing a $6M PF?

It's not so much about trying to get a $17-20 mil PF, but creating a bit more room under the 2nd apron AND balancing the roster. Portis and Finney-Smith are two possibilities. TC ought to get a 2nd round pick or two for Finney-Smith.

Somehow, it seems like the Josh Green contract will likely be moved. I suppose TC could waive and stretch Donte, then try to re-sign him with the MLE next offseason...

[Q-is-here]

I keep coming back to Josh Green's salary being used to acquire a PF, but that TJ Shannon is the only sweetener TC has left in his gun belt to make it happen. I kind of hope I am wrong, but I've already resigned myself to TJ's departure...

What's the marginal return on an incremental dollar spent on a PF? I think it diminishes quite steeply after you get past the vet minimum on our team.

The things NBA teams pay dearly for are high usage scorers (Ant), lead guards (Ball), elite defensive Centers (Rudy), and two-way big wings (Jaden). With all those higher order functions largely covered, what is a $17-$20M PF going to give us that is worth giving up TJ vs. keeping TJ and signing a $6M PF?

It's not so much about trying to get a $17-20 mil PF, but creating a bit more room under the 2nd apron AND balancing the roster. Portis and Finney-Smith are two possibilities. TC ought to get a 2nd round pick or two for Finney-Smith.

Somehow, it seems like the Josh Green contract will likely be moved. I suppose TC could waive and stretch Donte, then try to re-sign him with the MLE next offseason...

Makes sense. You're right, we are right up against that second apron given the roster spots still open.

I was thinking about stretching DDV, but can you re-sign the same player you stretched? Seems like that would be something not allowed.

The Dallas version of DFS was sort of his peak. He seems more like a liability these days. Portis would be awesome, but he seems like someone Miami would want to keep.

[BeenLurkin]

This is really an existential “problem” that Mn fans might be worrying about more than the average fan because from the days of KG we have had a top 3 talent on the team at PF.

If Jaden does not slide to the “PF” position then we are facing the completely unknown to many of our viewing eyes of having the PF be the worst starter on the floor.

We shouldn’t hope they continue to sell our known young talent to fill a hole that will just chase the worst starter to a different position.

It’s ok to have a least talented starter and a really good bench.

Ayo/TJ/Joan - Clark/guys Finch won’t play anyways/Isiah Evans/Rocco

Not the worst bench, but if you keep harvesting it to get a known name at PF rather than best affordable fit we are probably not going to have any depth come playoff time ….

[60WinTim]

I was thinking about stretching DDV, but can you re-sign the same player you stretched? Seems like that would be something not allowed.

Yeah, my first thought was we could waive and stretch him, and then sign him to a vet minimum right away. But the rules say we cannot re-sign him until the end of his original contract. Which means he would be re-signable next off-season, although we would not have Bird rights.

[AussieWolf3]

This is really an existential “problem” that Mn fans might be worrying about more than the average fan because from the days of KG we have had a top 3 talent on the team at PF.

If Jaden does not slide to the “PF” position then we are facing the completely unknown to many of our viewing eyes of having the PF be the worst starter on the floor.

We shouldn’t hope they continue to sell our known young talent to fill a hole that will just chase the worst starter to a different position.

It’s ok to have a least talented starter and a really good bench.

Ayo/TJ/Joan - Clark/guys Finch won’t play anyways/Isiah Evans/Rocco

Not the worst bench, but if you keep harvesting it to get a known name at PF rather than best affordable fit we are probably not going to have any depth come playoff time ….

This is it, it really is!
They have converted future draft picks into known assets. The fact that they are all, except Rudy, under 26 years old, makes it a really sounds strategy. The problem is that nearly all of them are making market value. Trading lotto tickets to get known assets is honestly fine imo given the timelines of everything, but in order for this thing to work out into a finals appearance and God forbid, maybe even a championship you have to hit on cheap contract going way above value.
If you trade away TJ or Joan you essentially punt any chance of that.

As far as I'm concerned, we're pretty much at the point as a fanbase where we kinda have to "trust the process" cause I don't think any incoming moves or signings are gonna make us feel anymore comfortable.