Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden0916 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:To be brutally honest... if I'm Gersson Rosas... I wouldn't be against putting anything on the table outside of Karl-Anthony Towns or D'Angelo Russell for either Ben Simmons or Devin Booker. The first overall pick, 17th overall pick, future firsts, Jarrett Culver, Malik Beasley, Josh Okogie, Naz Reid, etc. Any combination that can work, I would do. I'm all in, for my poker players out there.

Finding a supporting cast -- finding role players -- is so much easier and more feasible than acquiring star level talent, especially stars that fit together. That's common sense on this board and I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence by saying it. I have to imagine that Rosas has the same view considering he discovered some handy, cheap talent last off-season and at the deadline.

Also, I would imagine that a team that rosters Towns, Booker, and Russell would become an attractive free agent destination. Our odds of becoming anything legitimately close to a contender are just so much better with three stars in hand than relying on draft picks and development.

Just curious would you do Russell and #1 for Simmons?

I'd feel confident that I could get a deal done for Simmons without giving up Russell. The appeal of Simmons is lessened if Russell is headed out the door, in my opinion.

Simmons is quite clearly the better player between the two, but my initial reaction is that Russell and James Wiseman would be too much. I'm probably alone on that, but here I stand.

I would want something else in return to provide balance... or just remove Russell and compile more assets.

I agree, as the main point in trading for Russell was not really about moving Andrew, but to help keep KAT in MN. I would not move Russell unless it was a complete king's ransom.

You do not make a trade while giving up future leverage on KAT.

TheFuture wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:To be brutally honest... if I'm Gersson Rosas... I wouldn't be against putting anything on the table outside of Karl-Anthony Towns or D'Angelo Russell for either Ben Simmons or Devin Booker. The first overall pick, 17th overall pick, future firsts, Jarrett Culver, Malik Beasley, Josh Okogie, Naz Reid, etc. Any combination that can work, I would do. I'm all in, for my poker players out there.

Finding a supporting cast -- finding role players -- is so much easier and more feasible than acquiring star level talent, especially stars that fit together. That's common sense on this board and I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence by saying it. I have to imagine that Rosas has the same view considering he discovered some handy, cheap talent last off-season and at the deadline.

Also, I would imagine that a team that rosters Towns, Booker, and Russell would become an attractive free agent destination. Our odds of becoming anything legitimately close to a contender are just so much better with three stars in hand than relying on draft picks and development.

Just curious would you do Russell and #1 for Simmons?

I'd feel confident that I could get a deal done for Simmons without giving up Russell. The appeal of Simmons is lessened if Russell is headed out the door, in my opinion.

Simmons is quite clearly the better player between the two, but my initial reaction is that Russell and James Wiseman would be too much. I'm probably alone on that, but here I stand.

I would want something else in return to provide balance... or just remove Russell and compile more assets.

I agree, as the main point in trading for Russell was not really about moving Andrew, but to help keep KAT in MN. I would not move Russell unless it was a complete king's ransom.
.

KAT is a helluva player, but I think you overrate him a bit. I'd go so far as to say KAT is worth more on the trade market than his value is on the team. I don't think anybody should be untouchable on this team. We could get a king's ransom for KAT, a nice return for DLO, and then you take those assets and build around Wiseman. I realize this won't be a popular scenario, but I'd consider it. I personally don't think we can win big with KAT and DLO unless we get lucky and find that third star either by trade or in the draft. If we can get Simmons, by all means add him and go for it. Let's see how dynamic Rosas can be. His time to shine is right now.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:To be brutally honest... if I'm Gersson Rosas... I wouldn't be against putting anything on the table outside of Karl-Anthony Towns or D'Angelo Russell for either Ben Simmons or Devin Booker. The first overall pick, 17th overall pick, future firsts, Jarrett Culver, Malik Beasley, Josh Okogie, Naz Reid, etc. Any combination that can work, I would do. I'm all in, for my poker players out there.

Finding a supporting cast -- finding role players -- is so much easier and more feasible than acquiring star level talent, especially stars that fit together. That's common sense on this board and I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence by saying it. I have to imagine that Rosas has the same view considering he discovered some handy, cheap talent last off-season and at the deadline.

Also, I would imagine that a team that rosters Towns, Booker, and Russell would become an attractive free agent destination. Our odds of becoming anything legitimately close to a contender are just so much better with three stars in hand than relying on draft picks and development.

Just curious would you do Russell and #1 for Simmons?

I'd feel confident that I could get a deal done for Simmons without giving up Russell. The appeal of Simmons is lessened if Russell is headed out the door, in my opinion.

Simmons is quite clearly the better player between the two, but my initial reaction is that Russell and James Wiseman would be too much. I'm probably alone on that, but here I stand.

I would want something else in return to provide balance... or just remove Russell and compile more assets.

I agree, as the main point in trading for Russell was not really about moving Andrew, but to help keep KAT in MN. I would not move Russell unless it was a complete king's ransom.
.

KAT is a helluva player, but I think you overrate him a bit. I'd go so far as to say KAT is worth more on the trade market than his value is on the team. I don't think anybody should be untouchable on this team. We could get a king's ransom for KAT, a nice return for DLO, and then you take those assets and build around Wiseman. I realize this won't be a popular scenario, but I'd consider it. I personally don't think we can win big with KAT and DLO unless we get lucky and find that third star either by trade or in the draft. If we can get Simmons, by all means add him and go for it. Let's see how dynamic Rosas can be. His time to shine is right now.

I hear you, Cool, and I'm sure khans is or will be typing something similar to what I'm about to say here (because he's made this point before, I believe), but the Wolves will be able to get pretty significant hauls for both Karl-Anthony Towns and even D'Angelo Russell two or three years from now if they decide to blow it all up and restart.

There's no real rush to sell parts right now m, though, so why not try to put together the best team that you can and go for it in the meantime? Either Gersson Rosas strikes it right and the Wolves become a really competitive team or the effort fails and he can rebuild. Towns and Russell will still be 26/27 by that time with substantial trade value still intact.

Camden wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:To be brutally honest... if I'm Gersson Rosas... I wouldn't be against putting anything on the table outside of Karl-Anthony Towns or D'Angelo Russell for either Ben Simmons or Devin Booker. The first overall pick, 17th overall pick, future firsts, Jarrett Culver, Malik Beasley, Josh Okogie, Naz Reid, etc. Any combination that can work, I would do. I'm all in, for my poker players out there.

Finding a supporting cast -- finding role players -- is so much easier and more feasible than acquiring star level talent, especially stars that fit together. That's common sense on this board and I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence by saying it. I have to imagine that Rosas has the same view considering he discovered some handy, cheap talent last off-season and at the deadline.

Also, I would imagine that a team that rosters Towns, Booker, and Russell would become an attractive free agent destination. Our odds of becoming anything legitimately close to a contender are just so much better with three stars in hand than relying on draft picks and development.

Just curious would you do Russell and #1 for Simmons?

I'd feel confident that I could get a deal done for Simmons without giving up Russell. The appeal of Simmons is lessened if Russell is headed out the door, in my opinion.

Simmons is quite clearly the better player between the two, but my initial reaction is that Russell and James Wiseman would be too much. I'm probably alone on that, but here I stand.

I would want something else in return to provide balance... or just remove Russell and compile more assets.

I agree, as the main point in trading for Russell was not really about moving Andrew, but to help keep KAT in MN. I would not move Russell unless it was a complete king's ransom.
.

KAT is a helluva player, but I think you overrate him a bit. I'd go so far as to say KAT is worth more on the trade market than his value is on the team. I don't think anybody should be untouchable on this team. We could get a king's ransom for KAT, a nice return for DLO, and then you take those assets and build around Wiseman. I realize this won't be a popular scenario, but I'd consider it. I personally don't think we can win big with KAT and DLO unless we get lucky and find that third star either by trade or in the draft. If we can get Simmons, by all means add him and go for it. Let's see how dynamic Rosas can be. His time to shine is right now.

I hear you, Cool, and I'm sure khans is or will be typing something similar to what I'm about to say here (because he's made this point before, I believe), but the Wolves will be able to get pretty significant hauls for both Karl-Anthony Towns and even D'Angelo Russell two or three years from now if they decide to blow it all up and restart.

There's no real rush to sell parts right now m, though, so why not try to put together the best team that you can and go for it in the meantime? Either Gersson Rosas strikes it right and the Wolves become a really competitive team or the effort fails and he can rebuild. Towns and Russell will still be 26/27 by that time with substantial trade value still intact.

Fair enough. I hope you're right. I'm fine with seeing how this works this year. But I really think we need that 3rd major piece. Forgive me for being skeptical, after all I'm a Wolves fan.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:To be brutally honest... if I'm Gersson Rosas... I wouldn't be against putting anything on the table outside of Karl-Anthony Towns or D'Angelo Russell for either Ben Simmons or Devin Booker. The first overall pick, 17th overall pick, future firsts, Jarrett Culver, Malik Beasley, Josh Okogie, Naz Reid, etc. Any combination that can work, I would do. I'm all in, for my poker players out there.

Finding a supporting cast -- finding role players -- is so much easier and more feasible than acquiring star level talent, especially stars that fit together. That's common sense on this board and I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence by saying it. I have to imagine that Rosas has the same view considering he discovered some handy, cheap talent last off-season and at the deadline.

Also, I would imagine that a team that rosters Towns, Booker, and Russell would become an attractive free agent destination. Our odds of becoming anything legitimately close to a contender are just so much better with three stars in hand than relying on draft picks and development.

Just curious would you do Russell and #1 for Simmons?

I'd feel confident that I could get a deal done for Simmons without giving up Russell. The appeal of Simmons is lessened if Russell is headed out the door, in my opinion.

Simmons is quite clearly the better player between the two, but my initial reaction is that Russell and James Wiseman would be too much. I'm probably alone on that, but here I stand.

I would want something else in return to provide balance... or just remove Russell and compile more assets.

I agree, as the main point in trading for Russell was not really about moving Andrew, but to help keep KAT in MN. I would not move Russell unless it was a complete king's ransom.
.

KAT is a helluva player, but I think you overrate him a bit. I'd go so far as to say KAT is worth more on the trade market than his value is on the team. I don't think anybody should be untouchable on this team. We could get a king's ransom for KAT, a nice return for DLO, and then you take those assets and build around Wiseman. I realize this won't be a popular scenario, but I'd consider it. I personally don't think we can win big with KAT and DLO unless we get lucky and find that third star either by trade or in the draft. If we can get Simmons, by all means add him and go for it. Let's see how dynamic Rosas can be. His time to shine is right now.

I hear you, Cool, and I'm sure khans is or will be typing something similar to what I'm about to say here (because he's made this point before, I believe), but the Wolves will be able to get pretty significant hauls for both Karl-Anthony Towns and even D'Angelo Russell two or three years from now if they decide to blow it all up and restart.

There's no real rush to sell parts right now m, though, so why not try to put together the best team that you can and go for it in the meantime? Either Gersson Rosas strikes it right and the Wolves become a really competitive team or the effort fails and he can rebuild. Towns and Russell will still be 26/27 by that time with substantial trade value still intact.

Fair enough. I hope you're right. I'm fine with seeing how this works this year. But I really think we need that 3rd major piece. Forgive me for being skeptical, after all I'm a Wolves fan.

Cool I get the idea of basically blowing the whole thing up and starting over. In some ways it does make some sense especially if you actually believe Wiseman is a guy to build around. I do think there are a couple problems in the plan that I think are worth considering.

1. This is the biggest one. Trading Towns will bring back a lot both in terms of picks and players. The roster has plenty of opportunities for guys and some open roster spots but at what point even just deal Towns will there not be enough spots for all the players and picks? That's even assuming Beasley isn't even part of the team anymore. Add in getting some sort of worthwhile return for Russell it could be sort of a finishing returns situation (pun sort of intended). I get dealing both of them to start over fresh but I'm not sure that makes sense in terms of getting the best value for them.

2. I know your position on Russell and have your reasons for not believing in him so you are willing to deal him but what is his value right now? I really don't know. Obviously he would bring back some legit value but idk if it's enough to consider dealing him especially because I belief that he COULD be a very good guard in this league. I'd simply want to get back something pretty worthwhile for him and I think the best thing to do right now is probably keep him and increase his value even more instead of trading him. If you wanted to really rebuild I saw trade Towns keep Russell for a while since he will probably put up some big numbers and see if he is gonna be something and if not trade him then. Could his value drop? Yes but I sense his value might not be super high right now.

I think everyone is skeptical to some extent about where this team is headed to be honest. I think everyone can see some sort of path to become a really good team but we actually have to hit on some young players and...it's hard to really believe in that. Even if you didn't believe in Beasley it still doesn't help that now he is a giant question mark. It's like another here we go again what else will go wrong thing along with another possible asset wasted. Sigh... It would be nice to nail this draft with even one really good player out of a possible 3 tries.

thedoper wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

thedoper wrote:If Booker is anywhere near reachable for us we empty the barrels to get him.

One of those "we'll figure out the rest later" situations.

Getting 3 potential stars that young would be unprecedented. You absolutely have to do it. Its not like we have any breakout stars waiting in the wings on this team. Every one of our role players is replacable.

No, it happens quite often. In fact, OKC had four young stars: KD, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka.

Camden wrote:To be brutally honest... if I'm Gersson Rosas... I wouldn't be against putting anything on the table outside of Karl-Anthony Towns or D'Angelo Russell for either Ben Simmons or Devin Booker. The first overall pick, 17th overall pick, future firsts, Jarrett Culver, Malik Beasley, Josh Okogie, Naz Reid, etc. Any combination that can work, I would do. I'm all in, for my poker players out there.

Finding a supporting cast -- finding role players -- is so much easier and more feasible than acquiring star level talent, especially stars that fit together. That's common sense on this board and I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence by saying it. I have to imagine that Rosas has the same view considering he discovered some handy, cheap talent last off-season and at the deadline.

Also, I would imagine that a team that rosters Towns, Booker, and Russell would become an attractive free agent destination.Our odds of becoming anything legitimately close to a contender are just so much better with three stars in hand than relying on draft picks and development.

I think exactly the opposite would happen. I don't think top free Agents would want to play with those three guys. Three guys who will hog the ball and not play defense, KAT's prima donnaness and DLO's immaturity and maybe most importantly, its Minnesota, where nobody wants to come here unless they are very overpaid.

KG4Ever wrote:

thedoper wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

thedoper wrote:If Booker is anywhere near reachable for us we empty the barrels to get him.

One of those "we'll figure out the rest later" situations.

Getting 3 potential stars that young would be unprecedented. You absolutely have to do it. Its not like we have any breakout stars waiting in the wings on this team. Every one of our role players is replacable.

No, it happens quite often. In fact, OKC had four young stars: KD, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka.

We would have to politely agree to disagree on the entirety of this comment. Specifically, with the term "often" as pairing three All-Stars 25-or-younger has happened exactly zero times in my lifetime. I'd love for someone to fact check me on that, though. When is the last time that three age 25-or-younger All-Stars were on the same team?

It certainly wasn't the Oklahoma City team you're referring to. While they were obviously ridiculously talented, those Thunder teams didn't have All-Star James Harden. He was very good with the Thunder, but he took off in Houston. Serge Ibaka has never been a star.

I thought about the Miami Heat when their Big Three joined forces, but Dwyane Wade was already 29. LeBron James and Chris Bosh were 26.

The Golden State Warriors come very close in 2015-16. Klay Thompson and Draymond Green were 25 and Steph Curry was a baby-faced 27. That collection of talent was also an anomaly.

My conclusion is that no, it doesn't happen often. It would be unprecedented, or at least it hasn't happened in a very long time.