Buddy Hield

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khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
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Re: Buddy Hield

Post by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728] »

lipoli390 wrote:
khans2k5 wrote:I'd take Buddy over Beasley. I prefer the consistency of Buddy over the hot and cold that you can see with Beasley. Beasley is a 6th man that when he's on he's helping you and when he's off you have to sit him. That can't be our starting 2 if we want to be good. I don't care about age. The only ages that matter on this team are KAT, D Lo and our number 1 pick. The rest of the team is going to be role players that you don't need to plan 5-6-7 years around with the main pieces. Stop trying to secure role players for a decade with the core. That's not how the NBA works.


Buddy IS a role player. He's a perimeter shooter - a very good one but that's all he is


Buddy is a role player locked up for 4 years and that's all I need him for. I'm not out here trying to lock up Beasley for the next decade as a core piece because he's 23. Buddy would come in, give us consistent starter quality minutes and help us become a playoff team. Beasley is a bench role player being asked to start and will lose you just as many games as he helps you win with his shooting. That's not how you win games in the NBA. We need consistency around KAT and D Lo.
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Monster
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Re: Buddy Hield

Post by Monster »

lipoli390 wrote:
monsterpile wrote:
lipoli390 wrote:
Camden wrote:I've proposed that exact deal -- Jarrett Culver, James Johnson, and the 17th-overall pick for Buddy Hield -- on a different thread. I'd be in favor of it, especially if James Wiseman is taken with the first pick. I think that would be good value for both sides given the circumstances, but favors Minnesota more because Hield is a quality player. He's in the same NBA tier as C.J. McCollum and Malcolm Brogdon, in my opinion. That's a good get given the price.

A buddy of mine that is a Kings fan and has a fair amount of Kings fans following him on Twitter reaffirmed that the proposed deal is what they would ask for in such a deal if they were the GM.

Obviously, we're just spitballing trades as fans, but at least this one seems to be pretty realistic in terms of an offer.


I don't like that deal for several reasons. First, the last thing we need is another poor defender in our rotation with KAT and DLO. I might feel differently if Rosas hadn't cast his lot with DLO as our other all-star to pair with KAT. Drafting Wiseman (or Okongwu) would help if either can be as good defensively as many project, but not enough in my view to make up for the poor defenders around them. Second, Buddy is a great shooter, but he's purely one-dimensional and is, therefore, overpaid. Third, trading for Buddy would likely mean that Beasley won't re-sign here because he's clearly looking for the chance to be a starting SG. And that would mean we essentially wasted the assets (Covington) we dealt for him. Finally, I think the deal you've sketched out is too much for Buddy. Dealing last year's #6 pick before he's had a chance to develop in addition to this year's 17th pick strikes me as too much for a one-dimensional player no matter how good a shooter he is. That's just my view.

I'd re-sign Beasley to a cheaper contract than Buddy's. Beasley is younger than Buddy and, I believe, has more upside as a passer, ballhandler and defender. Draft well and develop Culver. Unless we can package Culver for an elite player like Simmons or Beal, the Wolves organization should keep and develop him. It's about time this organization developed their young talent and that requires some patience. They showed too much patience with Wiggins, who clearly displayed a lack of competitive drive to improve from the beginning. I recall be told by someone in the organization about Flip screaming at Wiggins for his lack of effort in practice. That person said Flip used language they'd never heard from him before. Yet, they gave him almost 6 full seasons and a max contract before finally trading him. But players like Culver are the ones worthy of patience. He's reputed to have a great worth ethic and, while quiet, you can see a lot of competitive fire in him. Most really good NBA players improve significantly after their rookie season and tend to show their greatest improvement between their 2nd and 3rd seasons. I didn't like the Wolves trading up for Culver, but I would absolutely not bale on him now for anyone other than a third star and that's not Buddy.


If you told me we traded Covinginton for Buddy a few months ago I would have had zero problems with it. I'd jump on this deal with no hesitation and if Beasley walks he walks. Im a big fan of Beasley but the reality is he might just be a bench player. I'm not giving up on Culver but I'm not holding up a deal Because of him for adding one of the best 3 point shooters in the league. The only thing that bring a pause is Buddy's age.


Me too. If it's just Covington, then fine. But in the deal suggested above, we're also giving up Culver and the 17th pick, not to mention Johnson who helps this team defensively. And Buddy cost more.


I'll counter that Culver might end up being a bench player and could end up being overpaid to do that at his draft spot salary. I'd rather go for a known quality over quantity. Meanwhile this trade opens up 2 roster spots so if you want to develop other young players (I do also) this helps with that. Meanwhile what if we can keep Beasley for a good price or what if we are able to pull off some sort of sign and trade? This is all theoretical as ai don't think we could get Buddy for that price but I would do it. I get why you wouldn't but again I think yours and mine biggest hesitation with this deal is Buddy's age. I wonder what the price would be for Bogdonovic?
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: Buddy Hield

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

I guess I'm not following why Hield's age is a reason not to make that trade. The Wolves are in win-now mode whether we like it or not. Yes, they need to be developing more talent, but they also need to be racking up wins and making the playoffs as early as next year. They have even more incentive to win given that Golden State owns their 2021 first-round pick and obviously the more wins Minnesota accumulates the lower that pick will be. They also have a potentially unhappy All-NBA player that might want out -- if you buy into Darren Wolfson's game of telephone rumor. Winning can cure all, so to speak. The Wolves should be making a concerted effort to be the best team they can be in the present.

Let's also talk about Hield's age. He's 27 and turns 28 in December this year. Hield is younger than C.J. McCollum, Kyrie Irving, Victor Oladipo, Kawhi Leonard, and Rudy Gobert -- all of which are considered to be either in their primes or entering their primes. Most fans and followers of the NBA still consider their best basketball ahead of them. Hield is also approximately just six months older than trade rumor darling Bradley Beal. This board would welcome a trade for any of those players and wouldn't think twice about their ages. So, really, the discussion should be about what caliber of player Hield is, does he fit with our main pieces, is he obtainable, and what would it take to acquire him. His age is a non-factor in determining whether or not he should be a target.
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Crazysauce
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Re: Buddy Hield

Post by Crazysauce »

I only bring up the age not because hes too old but because Beasley is very young and from reports a hard worker who will be getting better. Hield on the other hand is what he is, which is a good player. I like buddy and wouldnt mind getting him but you only have so much money available to spend and depending what it takes to sign beasley, if its 12 to 14 mill per compared to buddys 18 to 24 then i think we try to save the 8 or 9 mil per year and roll the dice on improvement from Beasley. And with his recent legal woes he probably hurt his market value as well.
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khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
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Re: Buddy Hield

Post by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728] »

crazysauce wrote:I only bring up the age not because hes too old but because Beasley is very young and from reports a hard worker who will be getting better. Hield on the other hand is what he is, which is a good player. I like buddy and wouldnt mind getting him but you only have so much money available to spend and depending what it takes to sign beasley, if its 12 to 14 mill per compared to buddys 18 to 24 then i think we try to save the 8 or 9 mil per year and roll the dice on improvement from Beasley. And with his recent legal woes he probably hurt his market value as well.


We have no cap space so it really just comes down to who you think is the better player. Saving 6-10 million doesn't net us anything different on the rest of the roster currently.
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Monster
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Re: Buddy Hield

Post by Monster »

khans2k5 wrote:
crazysauce wrote:I only bring up the age not because hes too old but because Beasley is very young and from reports a hard worker who will be getting better. Hield on the other hand is what he is, which is a good player. I like buddy and wouldnt mind getting him but you only have so much money available to spend and depending what it takes to sign beasley, if its 12 to 14 mill per compared to buddys 18 to 24 then i think we try to save the 8 or 9 mil per year and roll the dice on improvement from Beasley. And with his recent legal woes he probably hurt his market value as well.


We have no cap space so it really just comes down to who you think is the better player. Saving 6-10 million doesn't net us anything different on the rest of the roster currently.


Culver is included in the deal too so that knocks down the cost somewhat as well. Lots of ways to save money. It's also possible Beasley doesn't come that cheap. It's also possible he walks with a bigger deal than the Wolves want to pay him.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Buddy Hield

Post by Lipoli390 »

Camden wrote:I guess I'm not following why Hield's age is a reason not to make that trade. The Wolves are in win-now mode whether we like it or not. Yes, they need to be developing more talent, but they also need to be racking up wins and making the playoffs as early as next year. They have even more incentive to win given that Golden State owns their 2021 first-round pick and obviously the more wins Minnesota accumulates the lower that pick will be. They also have a potentially unhappy All-NBA player that might want out -- if you buy into Darren Wolfson's game of telephone rumor. Winning can cure all, so to speak. The Wolves should be making a concerted effort to be the best team they can be in the present.

Let's also talk about Hield's age. He's 27 and turns 28 in December this year. Hield is younger than C.J. McCollum, Kyrie Irving, Victor Oladipo, Kawhi Leonard, and Rudy Gobert -- all of which are considered to be either in their primes or entering their primes. Most fans and followers of the NBA still consider their best basketball ahead of them. Hield is also approximately just six months older than trade rumor darling Bradley Beal. This board would welcome a trade for any of those players and wouldn't think twice about their ages. So, really, the discussion should be about what caliber of player Hield is, does he fit with our main pieces, is he obtainable, and what would it take to acquire him. His age is a non-factor in determining whether or not he should be a target.


I can't speak for others, but my hesitation isn't related to Buddy's age. He's only 3 years older than KAT and DLO, so he fits their trajectory. I raised the age issue only in relation to Malik Beasley because I see the two as mutually exclusive - i.e., Beasley won't want to-resign here if we trade for Buddy. I see the 23-year-old Beasley having substantial upside, including the potential to become a good defender whereas Buddy is likely to remain a poor defender given his age. I recognize that Buddy is an elite perimeter shooter. My problem is that adding Buddy means adding a poor defender along-side another poor defender in our backcourt. One of the keys to Golden State's success is that fact that Klay Thompson is both an elite shooter AND an elite defender. Having two bad defenders as our starting backcourt is a prescription for failure over the long haul and that's true even if we can pair KAT with a defensive big, which itself is unlikely. Even worse is that we'd be giving up one of our two young defensive wings (Culver or Okogie) and our one defensive front-court player, James Johnson, to get him. We'd also be giving up our #17 pick. In my view, that's too high a price to pay for another poor defensive starting guard alongside DLO.

I recognize that Beasley is also a poor defender. But at his age with his gritty attitude and toughness, I see him at least having the potential to become good on that end of the floor. Moreover, we don't have to give up any additional assets to get him. By the way, I'm not part of any Beasley hype. I'm projecting who I think he can be based on what he did in college, what he's done so far in the NBA and what I see when I watch him play. He had one year of college and put up better numbers than Buddy did in his freshman year. In fact, Beasley's freshman stats were nearly identical to Buddy's sophomore stats. Beasley has been a high-percentage 3-point shooter his entire NBA career thus far, albeit on limited attempts. And while I'm not relying exclusively on his 14 games with the Wolves, I'm not going to ignore those games either since they provide the most recent record of his NBA production. I understand that Beasley might not end up as good as Buddy. But there's enough evidence to suggest he could end up as good on the offensive end and he's young enough to have the potential to develop into a good defender. Importantly, we don't have to give up valuable assets to get him.

Trading for Hield would not be a dumb move like so many past moves by the Wolves organization. It's just a move I wouldn't make.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Buddy Hield

Post by Lipoli390 »

khans2k5 wrote:
crazysauce wrote:I only bring up the age not because hes too old but because Beasley is very young and from reports a hard worker who will be getting better. Hield on the other hand is what he is, which is a good player. I like buddy and wouldnt mind getting him but you only have so much money available to spend and depending what it takes to sign beasley, if its 12 to 14 mill per compared to buddys 18 to 24 then i think we try to save the 8 or 9 mil per year and roll the dice on improvement from Beasley. And with his recent legal woes he probably hurt his market value as well.


We have no cap space so it really just comes down to who you think is the better player. Saving 6-10 million doesn't net us anything different on the rest of the roster currently.


The luxury tax is an issue. Every million matters when you're managing the salary cap - both in relation to the cap itself and the luxury-tax threshold.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Buddy Hield

Post by Lipoli390 »

monsterpile wrote:
khans2k5 wrote:
crazysauce wrote:I only bring up the age not because hes too old but because Beasley is very young and from reports a hard worker who will be getting better. Hield on the other hand is what he is, which is a good player. I like buddy and wouldnt mind getting him but you only have so much money available to spend and depending what it takes to sign beasley, if its 12 to 14 mill per compared to buddys 18 to 24 then i think we try to save the 8 or 9 mil per year and roll the dice on improvement from Beasley. And with his recent legal woes he probably hurt his market value as well.


We have no cap space so it really just comes down to who you think is the better player. Saving 6-10 million doesn't net us anything different on the rest of the roster currently.


Culver is included in the deal too so that knocks down the cost somewhat as well. Lots of ways to save money. It's also possible Beasley doesn't come that cheap. It's also possible he walks with a bigger deal than the Wolves want to pay him.


Those are good points, Monster. The Wolves need to make fully-informed decisions. If they're not sure about re-signing Beasley or have doubts about what they'll have to pay to re-sign him, that changes the calculus. I'm not sure that means I see trading for Buddy as the alternative to re-signing Beasley. It just means it's part of the decision-making matrix.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Buddy Hield

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

We need bigger wings that can defend and shoot. Right now we have a bunch of 6'3/6'4/6'5 shooting guards that can either shoot and not defend or defend but can't shoot. Hield is simply an older, more expensive - and yes - somewhat better version of Beasley.
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