FNG wrote:Camden wrote:There's just a complete lack of understanding on your part, FNG when it comes to the situation the Sixers find themselves in. Gersson Rosas would only even consider trading Anthony Edwards if there were offers from other bidders for Ben Simmons that forced him to consider outbidding them by making Edwards available. Those offers are not there. And whether you believe it or not, Simmons will almost certainly be traded during training camp, which means that Philadelphia will need to find an acceptable deal for Simmons sooner rather than later. Again, you're ignoring the additional factors at play here and instead focusing on the quality of player Simmons is, which is fine, except his trade value doesn't reflect that at this time. Edwards will not be dealt and nor should he.
Wait Cam...are you my girlfriend in disguise? She's the only person I know who always says I have "a complete lack of understanding"....about damn near everything! And she loves D'Angelo Russell too! That you, honey? ;-)
I actually agree with what you are saying. Ant is Rosas's boy and potentially a star in this league (although I don't think he will ever quite get to Simmons' level), and there's no way he is going to offer him up unless another suitor puts a star on the table. And I agree that nobody has done that yet. But he also seems to be the POBO who most desires Simmons, so I think he will do whatever it takes to get him. So far the reported market is deals like Beasley and Jaden plus picks, but the ante might be upped as we get closer to a deal. I think you agree that Simmons is much more moderate in personality and not as disruptive as Butler, and Thibs didn't even trade Butler before the season started when the situation was much more broken than the Simmons situation. Do we think Simmons is going to show up and beat the starters by playing with backups in training camp? Nope, he's just not a dick like Butler. If Thibs didn't feel like he had to trade a cancer like Butler before the season started, why do you think Morey will take a bad deal just to get Simmons out of town.
And you didn't answer my two questions (and I'd love for others to weigh in also, because the Simmons situation is real, and this is a good talker).
1) Hypothetically, would you trade Ant for a 25-year-old Steph Curry?
2) How many wins do you see the above rotation winning if we traded Ant for Simmons? Do you think Vegas would increase its posted win total if we made that trade, or would it still be 33.5?
FNG -
Just so you know, Cam is not your girlfriend in disguise. I am! And once again, it's clear you haven't been listening to me. You claimed that I say you have "a complete lack of understanding ... about damn near everything." Where did you come up with "damn near." Your complete lack of understanding extends to EVERYTHING! And yes, I love D'Angelo Russell, but not for the same reason as Cam. Cam loves his game. I love his body ... and those tattoos.
Now that we've cleared up those points, let's talk basketball and Simmons' value. What I'm about to say will highlight the fact that you understand nothing and I understanding everything:
1. Morey will trade Simmons before the season starts because keeping him under current circumstances will hurt the team without increasing Simmons' trade value. Simmons doesn't have to be a Butler-caliber jerk to hurt the team. His agent simply needs to hold him out, which he has indicated he'll do. Butler actually played game when the season started, but I think Rich Paul will keep Simmons out. And even if Simmons plays, it will be awkward for him and his teammates since everyone will no he's only there temporarily. By all accounts, Thibs could have gotten a better deal for Butler if he had dealt him before the season. He ended up trading Butler for the equivalent of pennies on the dollar. Morey's not going to make that same mistake.
2. Simmons' market value is not going to increase significantly between now and the beginning of the season. Why?
First, because there's no foreseeable catalyst that would have a significant impact on his value. The Sixers have had Simmons on the market for two months no and the offers haven't gone up. In fact, it appears the offers have gone down with Haliburton reportedly on the table initially but off the table now. The market has spoken and there's no reason to believe the market is going to substantially recalibrate as the season approaches. To the contrary, as the season gets closer, the pressure mounts far more on Philly than on any team that might be interested in him.
Second, I think you're mistakenly assuming that Simmons has an intrinsic value well in excess of his market value. At the end of the day, your value as a player or employee of any kind is what the market says it is. Simmons isn't some unknown who is just being discovered. He's been performing out in the public domain for years. And now he's been aggressive shopped in the market for at least two months. So the market has had plenty of time and information to fully and accurately value him. He's a terrific player, but he's seriously flawed and not at the same level as a Steph Curry, James Harden, Kevin Durant or AD. Simmons isn't just a poor perimeter and free-throw shooter; he's horrifically bad. He's hit 14.7% of this 3-point attempts in his career, but worse is the fact that his taken only around 0.2 per game. And his free-throw percentage is under 60%. That's Shaq-like, but Simmons isn't anything close to the beast that Shaq was inside. He not a leader, tends to fade in big moments and doesn't have an engaging personality that helps put fans in seats. There's a reason the Sixers are shopping him so aggressively after posting the best record in the Eastern Conference. It wasn't just one playoff series this year. This has been building for some time. Moreover, there's a reason teams have been summarily rejecting Morey's inflated demands and refusing to even consider putting players like Beal, Lillard or Fox on the table.
I don't know if the Wolves will end up with Simmons, even though that's my prediction. But I'm certain, Morey's not going to get Beal, Lillard of Fox. In that same vein, there's no way he should get KAT or Ant. There are any number of possibilities for the Wolves to get him. Once possible scenario is a deal built around a lot of future Wolves' 1st-round picks, Beasley and another player, possibly McDaniels (Cam's scenario). Another possible scenario would be a deal built around DLO, another player (possibly McDaniels) and future draft picks, but fewer than the number required in the first scenario.
Now, as your girlfriend, I feel obliged to answer your two questions:
1. Would I trade Ant for a 25-year old Steph Curry? Yes. But let me remind your that Simmons is closer to being Jack Kennedy than Steph Curry. :)
2. Would we win more games with Simmons than with Ant next season and would the Vegas win-prediction increase with Simmons rather than Ant? I think the Vegas win total prediction would definitely go up with Simmons over Ant? My answer to whether the Wolves would actually win more games is maybe/maybe not. More importantly, Edwards has huge upside and can actually become a better overall player than Simmons. He also has a huge, engaging personality that can inspire teammates and help put fans in seats. With that upside along with multiple years left on his inexpensive rookies contract, he's a much better value proposition than Simmons in my view. If I owned the Wolves and Rosas came to me to ask for permission to trade Edwards for Simmons, I'd say no and then immediately fire him for his willingness to make that deal.
My final point is that you had better not argue with me if you want to see me tonight!