Most disappointing Rookie thus far

[Lipoli390]

Kek, FNG, Abe, Wolvesfan -- Good posts. I don't think there's a lot of disagreement among us.

I just see Ant as primarily responsible for being the exact same player he was in college. If he took more shots going to the rim, his percentage within 3 feet would probably be even worse than the current mediocre level it's at. And there's limit to how often any player, no matter how athletic, can get good shots going to the hole. Regarding his perimeter shot, it's not just shot selection. He flat out misses wide-open perimeter shots that he has to make far more frequently if he's ever going to be a really good player. He misses them off the dribble and on catch-and-shoots. His mechanics look OK; he's just has an accuracy problem. Maybe he'll fix that, but I'm not counting on it.

To the extent the Wolves are responsible for the fact that Ant's poor shooting has carried over from college, I'd blame on coaching and not some notion of "culture." If it's a matter of forcing Ant to take fewer perimeter shots in favor of going to the hole more often, then it's up the head coach to make that happen and sit him if it doesn't. If it's a matter of Ant taking more catch-and-shoot threes rather than shooting off the bounce, then it's up to the head coach to design the offense to make that happen. We'll see if Ant's shooting improves under his second NBA head coach. I'm not holding my breath. I think the key will be Ant taking thousands of perimeter shots in the off season. At least he doesn't have Culver's broken mechanics.

I still love Edwards' talent. Based on what we've seen so far, he'd be my 3rd choice after Ball and Haliburton, although I still would have traded down for Okongwu or Haliburton, but that's water under the bridge. The case for taking Ball over Edwards was that Ball was putting up great rebounding and assist numbers in the Australian League. Edwards was mediocre in every category except points per game.

[TheFuture]

I hate the coaching argument. Maybe it matters as a kid, but it doesn't mean shit in pro sports. I guess, maybe, they could tell you it is off ... but... you work on it or you don't.

I watched Dame and Curry talk about deep three point shooting. They specified about it being thousands upon thousands of reps before being comfortable doing that in a game. It is not coaching, it is God-given talent combined with want-to.

That being said:

Fire Ryan Saunders. Please, I am begging you Glen. He has no business being an NBA head coach outside of being Flip's son, and I honestly think he would have to fight for a college coaching head job.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I hate the coaching argument. Maybe it matters as a kid, but it doesn't mean shit in pro sports. I guess, maybe, they could tell you it is off ... but... you work on it or you don't.

I watched Dame and Curry talk about deep three point shooting. They specified about it being thousands upon thousands of reps before being comfortable doing that in a game. It is not coaching, it is God-given talent combined with want-to.

That being said:

Fire Ryan Saunders. Please, I am begging you Glen. He has no business being an NBA head coach outside of being Flip's son, and I honestly think he would have to fight for a college coaching head job.

He's been fired for about a week or more. Your wish has been granted. Woohoo!

[FNG]

I hate the coaching argument. Maybe it matters as a kid, but it doesn't mean shit in pro sports. I guess, maybe, they could tell you it is off ... but... you work on it or you don't.

I watched Dame and Curry talk about deep three point shooting. They specified about it being thousands upon thousands of reps before being comfortable doing that in a game. It is not coaching, it is God-given talent combined with want-to.

That being said:

Fire Ryan Saunders. Please, I am begging you Glen. He has no business being an NBA head coach outside of being Flip's son, and I honestly think he would have to fight for a college coaching head job.

First they have to fire Thibs...Jimmy Butler may decide to leave if Thibs is gone, but we have to take that chance. KAT, Wig and Zach will still be here, and they have enough talent to help us compete. Especially if we can negotiate a trade with the Celtics for KG.

KAT
KG
Wig
Zach
Pooh Richardson

Ok, returning to earth. Future, I hear that you don't like the coaching argument. What if we frame it as "accountability" instead? I still think Ant's biggest issue is shot selection. I think if Finch benched him when he didn't limit his game to mostly dunks/layups and threes, Ant would eventually get the message and change his game. All NBA players want court time, and Ant is no different. Finch can't continue to give him 32 minutes if he doesn't change his shot selection. That's accountability.

[BloopOracle]

I hate the coaching argument. Maybe it matters as a kid, but it doesn't mean shit in pro sports. I guess, maybe, they could tell you it is off ... but... you work on it or you don't.

I watched Dame and Curry talk about deep three point shooting. They specified about it being thousands upon thousands of reps before being comfortable doing that in a game. It is not coaching, it is God-given talent combined with want-to.

That being said:

Fire Ryan Saunders. Please, I am begging you Glen. He has no business being an NBA head coach outside of being Flip's son, and I honestly think he would have to fight for a college coaching head job.

He's been fired for about a week or more. Your wish has been granted. Woohoo!

Lmao

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Also, I'm just going to throw this out there. I believe that individual players are largely responsible for developing their games. They are the ones who have the most control in that aspect. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, so to speak. The player has to buy-in to his own future.

Game management and preparation is entirely different. I do feel like a head coach can make a positive, negative, or no impact at all in that regard. Obviously, if the roster is bad there's only so much that can be done, but you will still be able to see differences between a good coach and a bad coach. We've seen bad teams exceed their projected win totals in part because of good coaching. It's happening this year with the Knicks and the Spurs. We've also seen the opposite, especially in Minnesota, where talented teams fall short of projected win totals in part because of bad or poor coaching. We've seen new coaches take essentially the same roster as the last coach had and implement different schemes to achieve much better results. We've seen coaches use players differently to yield better results. We've seen playoff teams get out-coached in the playoffs leading to unexpected upsets. The idea that coaching just doesn't matter -- even in a star-studded league like the NBA -- is false.

[Lipoli390]

Also, I'm just going to throw this out there. I believe that individual players are largely responsible for developing their games. They are the ones who have the most control in that aspect. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, so to speak. The player has to buy-in to his own future.

Game management and preparation is entirely different. I do feel like a head coach can make a positive, negative, or no impact at all in that regard. Obviously, if the roster is bad there's only so much that can be done, but you will still be able to see differences between a good coach and a bad coach. We've seen bad teams exceed their projected win totals in part because of good coaching. It's happening this year with the Knicks and the Spurs. We've also seen the opposite, especially in Minnesota, where talented teams fall short of projected win totals in part because of bad or poor coaching. We've seen new coaches take essentially the same roster as the last coach had and implement different schemes to achieve much better results. We've seen coaches use players differently to yield better results. We've seen playoff teams get out-coached in the playoffs leading to unexpected upsets. The idea that coaching just doesn't matter -- even in a star-studded league like the NBA -- is false.

I agree that coaching matters. You mentioned game management and preparation. I would add Gersson's favorite work, "system" - as in designing offensive and defensive systems that fit the players on the roster, blending and maximizing their strengths while minimizing or covering their weaknesses. My small quibble is that I just don't buy this "culture" thing. If there is such a thing as a "winning culture", it comes from winning. And winning comes from a combination of talent, and yes, coaching. When it comes to individual talent, it's not just physical talent, it's also IQ and mental toughness. When it comes to overall talent, it's a matter of having the right blend of talent with complementary skill-sets and adequate balance.

The best example of what I mean was what happened when the Wolves acquired Jimmy Butler and Taj Gibson. Adding one all-star caliber player who was also mentally tough and really smart along with a really solid big man elevated a 21-year old Towns from the lottery to the playoffs in one season. And it likely would have taken him to a 4th or 5th seed of not for Butler's injury. The Wolves had a "winning culture" that season because they had the talent to win and a coach who knew how to get the most out of that talent.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Also, I'm just going to throw this out there. I believe that individual players are largely responsible for developing their games. They are the ones who have the most control in that aspect. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, so to speak. The player has to buy-in to his own future.

Game management and preparation is entirely different. I do feel like a head coach can make a positive, negative, or no impact at all in that regard. Obviously, if the roster is bad there's only so much that can be done, but you will still be able to see differences between a good coach and a bad coach. We've seen bad teams exceed their projected win totals in part because of good coaching. It's happening this year with the Knicks and the Spurs. We've also seen the opposite, especially in Minnesota, where talented teams fall short of projected win totals in part because of bad or poor coaching. We've seen new coaches take essentially the same roster as the last coach had and implement different schemes to achieve much better results. We've seen coaches use players differently to yield better results. We've seen playoff teams get out-coached in the playoffs leading to unexpected upsets. The idea that coaching just doesn't matter -- even in a star-studded league like the NBA -- is false.

I agree that coaching matters. You mentioned game management and preparation. I would add Gersson's favorite work, "system" - as in designing offensive and defensive systems that fit the players on the roster, blending and maximizing their strengths while minimizing or covering their weaknesses. My small quibble is that I just don't buy this "culture" thing. If there is such a thing as a "winning culture", it comes from winning. And winning comes from a combination of talent, and yes, coaching. When it comes to individual talent, it's not just physical talent, it's also IQ and mental toughness. When it comes to overall talent, it's a matter of having the right blend of talent with complementary skill-sets and adequate balance.

The best example of what I mean was what happened when the Wolves acquired Jimmy Butler and Taj Gibson. Adding one all-star caliber player who was also mentally tough and really smart along with a really solid big man elevated a 21-year old Towns from the lottery to the playoffs in one season. And it likely would have taken him to a 4th or 5th seed of not for Butler's injury. The Wolves had a "winning culture" that season because they had the talent to win and a coach who knew how to get the most out of that talent.

I think culture can go beyond winning and losing.

We talk about accountability. Maybe that's a better term than "culture"... something slightly more tangible? Basically, I think a loser's mentality sets in after years of futility, especially when a franchise doesn't care about wins or losses. The list of seasons where the Wolves tanked (whether subtle or obvious) is lengthy.

That leaves a mark.

[TheFuture]

I hate the coaching argument. Maybe it matters as a kid, but it doesn't mean shit in pro sports. I guess, maybe, they could tell you it is off ... but... you work on it or you don't.

I watched Dame and Curry talk about deep three point shooting. They specified about it being thousands upon thousands of reps before being comfortable doing that in a game. It is not coaching, it is God-given talent combined with want-to.

That being said:

Fire Ryan Saunders. Please, I am begging you Glen. He has no business being an NBA head coach outside of being Flip's son, and I honestly think he would have to fight for a college coaching head job.

He's been fired for about a week or more. Your wish has been granted. Woohoo!

Oh my God, what wish has ever been granted in advance?

I was once an avid watcher, now I could care less.

There is one constant with this franchise, and it is the guy overlooking it all.

If it was my decision, I would trade everything and start over once again.

[KG4Ever]

I hate the coaching argument. Maybe it matters as a kid, but it doesn't mean shit in pro sports. I guess, maybe, they could tell you it is off ... but... you work on it or you don't.

I watched Dame and Curry talk about deep three point shooting. They specified about it being thousands upon thousands of reps before being comfortable doing that in a game. It is not coaching, it is God-given talent combined with want-to.

That being said:

Fire Ryan Saunders. Please, I am begging you Glen. He has no business being an NBA head coach outside of being Flip's son, and I honestly think he would have to fight for a college coaching head job.

First they have to fire Thibs...Jimmy Butler may decide to leave if Thibs is gone, but we have to take that chance. KAT, Wig and Zach will still be here, and they have enough talent to help us compete. Especially if we can negotiate a trade with the Celtics for KG.

KAT
KG
Wig
Zach
Pooh Richardson

Ok, returning to earth. Future, I hear that you don't like the coaching argument. What if we frame it as "accountability" instead? I still think Ant's biggest issue is shot selection. I think if Finch benched him when he didn't limit his game to mostly dunks/layups and threes, Ant would eventually get the message and change his game. All NBA players want court time, and Ant is no different. Finch can't continue to give him 32 minutes if he doesn't change his shot selection. That's accountability.

Ant absolutely should be benched when he's chucking up shots and playing selfishly. One of my favorite coaches for the Wolves was Dwayne Casey, he benched McCants ass when he played selfishly. Wish we had a no-nonsense coach back when Wiggs, Lavine and KAT were coming up. Smitch was ok, but Thibs was terrible and ingrained bad habits into these three. I hope Finch isn't afraid of benching Ant or anybody else loafing on defense or playing selfishly. Wins no longer matter anyway, its about building good habits and development.