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Re: Allen Crabbe
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:03 pm
by Leado01
Will this make it easier to get DLO in any way?
There's a clear spot for him.
Re: Allen Crabbe
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:40 pm
by Monster
lipoli390 wrote:I'd really like to believe that there's something much more behind this deal. I have a gut feeling that there is more to this deal than simply creating a roster spot. So I'll keep my fingers crossed.
As it is right now, can't say this deal is a bad one. But it's clearly a nothing burger at best if not tied to something more significant. I'm not one of those who thought we'd get a first round pick for Teague. However, I do think we could and should have gotten a 2nd round pick. If George Hill can command a low 1st round pick then surely Teague was worth and should have commanded a 2nd round pick.
If this organization's plan is truly focused prospectively on building around KAT over these first 3 years of his 5-year deal as they've indicated, then they need to make moves consistent with that plan. Right now, that means lots of playing time for Culver, Okogie, Nowell, Martin, Reid and Vonleh as well as Layman when he returns. It also means accumulating tradable assets by the trade deadline that can be used next summer for possible deals or to draft talent. I just don't see how Allen Crabbe comes anywhere close to being consistent with our front office's purported plan. I don't see the point of a plan if you don't align all your decisions with that plan.
I guess we just have to hope the Wolves use this opportunity to sign Martin to a good long-term deal to fill the roster space created by the deal. I suppose that aligns with the front office's future-focused plan. I also have to admit that it will be a relief not watching Jeff Teague slow the offense and play matador defense. So I'm not upset by the deal. Just a bit disappointed.
If you read your own post you would see why George Hill was more highly sought after than Teague. Hill plays defense, can play on or off the ball. He is a willing 3 point shooter. He is if healthy basically a rich man's Mario Chalmers at worst. Teague is a good dude that can't seem to alter his playing style and is basically a scoring guard that has a ton of experience playing as a PG. I thought we may have been able to get a 2nd round pick for him too but I'm also not surprised they did this deal now and basically didn't get if anything in return.
Meanwhile like I said earlier Crabbe's game fits their style of play shooting the 3. Will they or should they play him? Idk but again this guy for years shot the 3 well and this team desperately needs 3 point shooting. Nobody was dying to see Teague and Graham play so...
Re: Allen Crabbe
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:07 am
by Lipoli390
Christopher Hine: Rosas adds that the deal helps the Wolves better position themselves to potentially acquire a high-level player via trade and help the other team out with cap relief in a potential deal. - via Twitter ChristopherHine
Can someone explain how this deal better positions the Wolves to acquire a high-level player via trade and help another team out with cap relief?? It doesn't make any sense. We had Teague's big expiring contract and now we have Crabbe's big expiring contract. What am I missing?
Re: Allen Crabbe
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:01 am
by AbeVigodaLive
lipoli390 wrote:Christopher Hine: Rosas adds that the deal helps the Wolves better position themselves to potentially acquire a high-level player via trade and help the other team out with cap relief in a potential deal. - via Twitter ChristopherHine
Can someone explain how this deal better positions the Wolves to acquire a high-level player via trade and help another team out with cap relief?? It doesn't make any sense. We had Teague's big expiring contract and now we have Crabbe's big expiring contract. What am I missing?
Meh. I'm just happy the Wolves didn't just slap on a "Questionable" tag about the deal and let it sit there for several weeks...
Re: Allen Crabbe
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:55 am
by WildWolf2813
lipoli390 wrote:I'd really like to believe that there's something much more behind this deal. I have a gut feeling that there is more to this deal than simply creating a roster spot. So I'll keep my fingers crossed.
As it is right now, can't say this deal is a bad one. But it's clearly a nothing burger at best if not tied to something more significant. I'm not one of those who thought we'd get a first round pick for Teague. However, I do think we could and should have gotten a 2nd round pick. If George Hill can command a low 1st round pick then surely Teague was worth and should have commanded a 2nd round pick.
If this organization's plan is truly focused prospectively on building around KAT over these first 3 years of his 5-year deal as they've indicated, then they need to make moves consistent with that plan. Right now, that means lots of playing time for Culver, Okogie, Nowell, Martin, Reid and Vonleh as well as Layman when he returns. It also means accumulating tradable assets by the trade deadline that can be used next summer for possible deals or to draft talent. I just don't see how Allen Crabbe comes anywhere close to being consistent with our front office's purported plan. I don't see the point of a plan if you don't align all your decisions with that plan.
I guess we just have to hope the Wolves use this opportunity to sign Martin to a good long-term deal to fill the roster space created by the deal. I suppose that aligns with the front office's future-focused plan. I also have to admit that it will be a relief not watching Jeff Teague slow the offense and play matador defense. So I'm not upset by the deal. Just a bit disappointed.
Teague is someone that teams would have pursued but as a buyout candidate and Atlanta sure as hell wasn't gonna give up a pick for a rental expiring contract. Teague's value simply wasn't that high.
Re: Allen Crabbe
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:12 am
by Lipoli390
WildWolf2813 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:I'd really like to believe that there's something much more behind this deal. I have a gut feeling that there is more to this deal than simply creating a roster spot. So I'll keep my fingers crossed.
As it is right now, can't say this deal is a bad one. But it's clearly a nothing burger at best if not tied to something more significant. I'm not one of those who thought we'd get a first round pick for Teague. However, I do think we could and should have gotten a 2nd round pick. If George Hill can command a low 1st round pick then surely Teague was worth and should have commanded a 2nd round pick.
If this organization's plan is truly focused prospectively on building around KAT over these first 3 years of his 5-year deal as they've indicated, then they need to make moves consistent with that plan. Right now, that means lots of playing time for Culver, Okogie, Nowell, Martin, Reid and Vonleh as well as Layman when he returns. It also means accumulating tradable assets by the trade deadline that can be used next summer for possible deals or to draft talent. I just don't see how Allen Crabbe comes anywhere close to being consistent with our front office's purported plan. I don't see the point of a plan if you don't align all your decisions with that plan.
I guess we just have to hope the Wolves use this opportunity to sign Martin to a good long-term deal to fill the roster space created by the deal. I suppose that aligns with the front office's future-focused plan. I also have to admit that it will be a relief not watching Jeff Teague slow the offense and play matador defense. So I'm not upset by the deal. Just a bit disappointed.
Teague is someone that teams would have pursued but as a buyout candidate and Atlanta sure as hell wasn't gonna give up a pick for a rental expiring contract. Teague's value simply wasn't that high.
Teague would have been a buy-out candidate only if the Wolves bought him out and there was no reason for the Wolves to do that. Teague could help a playoff team. He doesn't fit the Wolves system or roster very well, but he's a good PG with lots of playoff experience. The only realistic way for a playoff team to get him this year would have been through a trade. And a 2nd round pick would have been a small very reasonable price to pay. Apparently, the Wolves valued Crabbe more than a 2nd round pick; it's that simple. The reality is that Crabbe will be gone after this season and the Wolves will have absolutely no assets gained from the Teague deal. I'd much rather have an extra 2nd round pick to combine with other assets next June in potential trade packages.
Re: Allen Crabbe
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:29 am
by Lipoli390
One of the Rosas's comments about the trade that stood out was the following (in reference to the Wolves effort to find a PG who fits the team):
"But we're working on that to figure it out. We're going to be very aggressive through development of our guys. We'd love to see our guys take advantage of those opportunities."
Rosas has referred to style of play and age as two factors that made Teague a poor fit for the Wolves. So when Rosas refers to developing current roster players as potential fits at PG, who could he be talking about? Honestly, there's only one such player and that's Culver. Napier's age doesn't quite fit and he's been in the League long enough to know he's not going to develop into anything more than a backup PG at best. I sure hope Rosas isn't thinking of Wiggins as a potential fit there. His handle and decision-making aren't even close to the level required for the PG position. And after 6 full seasons in the League, it would be foolish to expect anything more. And even worse, his shooting has been regressing to it's inefficient norm. As for Culver, I like what I've seen from him since KAT went down. But I'm still not sure I see him as a PG. Nevertheless, I like the idea of giving him every chance to develop and shine in that role.
Re: Allen Crabbe
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:09 am
by kekgeek
lipoli390 wrote:Christopher Hine: Rosas adds that the deal helps the Wolves better position themselves to potentially acquire a high-level player via trade and help the other team out with cap relief in a potential deal. - via Twitter ChristopherHine
Can someone explain how this deal better positions the Wolves to acquire a high-level player via trade and help another team out with cap relief?? It doesn't make any sense. We had Teague's big expiring contract and now we have Crabbe's big expiring contract. What am I missing?
https://zonecoverage.com/2020/timberwolves/understanding-the-gersson-rosas-process-the-why-behind-the-jeff-teague-trade/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Here is a great article of Dane Moore about the trade and breaks down the financial flexibility things.
Some quick points from the article.
Wolves now approximately just over 9 million under the tax line. Allowing us to acquire another player without going over the tax line.
Wolves still have just over 4 million in their mid level exemption to use.
Rosas is quoted in the article saying this allows Culver and Wiggins to take a more ball dominated/initiating role in the offense.
We can't trade Crabbe (I didn't know this).
For me it's wait an see but I'm not going to lie im very nervous about what Rosas is going to do. So far in his short tenure he hasn't screwed up but hasn't given me massive confidence. Let's cross our fingers
Re: Allen Crabbe
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:53 am
by KG4Ever
That Dane Moore piece is quite interesting and helps explain the logic of the deal: 1. Teague hasn't adapted to the new system that Rosas and Ryan want to run; 2. Teague is a poor fit with KAT, Wiggins and Culver;
3. Crabbe is familiar with the coaches here and we get to evaluate him; 4. We create some additional cap space which we can use to sign someone during the season.
We no longer have Teague's contract to trade and there are restrictions around trading Crabbe (he can't be part of a package deal to a team over the cap).
Re: Allen Crabbe
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:16 am
by Monster
kekgeek1 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Christopher Hine: Rosas adds that the deal helps the Wolves better position themselves to potentially acquire a high-level player via trade and help the other team out with cap relief in a potential deal. - via Twitter ChristopherHine
Can someone explain how this deal better positions the Wolves to acquire a high-level player via trade and help another team out with cap relief?? It doesn't make any sense. We had Teague's big expiring contract and now we have Crabbe's big expiring contract. What am I missing?
https://zonecoverage.com/2020/timberwolves/understanding-the-gersson-rosas-process-the-why-behind-the-jeff-teague-trade/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Here is a great article of Dane Moore about the trade and breaks down the financial flexibility things.
Some quick points from the article.
Wolves now approximately just over 9 million under the tax line. Allowing us to acquire another player without going over the tax line.
Wolves still have just over 4 million in their mid level exemption to use.
Rosas is quoted in the article saying this allows Culver and Wiggins to take a more ball dominated/initiating role in the offense.
We can't trade Crabbe (I didn't know this).
For me it's wait an see but I'm not going to lie im very nervous about what Rosas is going to do. So far in his short tenure he hasn't screwed up but hasn't given me massive confidence. Let's cross our fingers
Some good points there by Dane.
To Lip's question about why this helps in another deal having an available roster spot does help. Obviously they could have just waived Graham but that would lower how much they could bring back in a trade. Did they give up a chance at a 2nd round pick because they added Graham in this deal? That could be a problem IF that was the case AND they didn't get anything done. I'll mention they can still trade Crabbe Just not with another player. They could also do some sort of 2 separate trades to get around that problem but obviously that is trickier.
Another note is that Crabbe's 3 point percentage has gone up every month of the season. He is shooting over 40% from 3 in January. Crabbe has a legit resume of shooting the 3 at a worthwhile percentage. It's more likely he will end up shooting it well the rest of the year than it isn't...I know he plays for the wolves but statistically it's likely he shoots over 36% from 3 as a Wolf this season. He turns 28 in April so it's not like he is a young guy with wild potential but he might be a guy worth signing for cheap if he fits. Going into this year 538 CARMELO had him as a rotation player worth a couple million. They actually had him as a positive as a defender when he played for the nets. Maybe he isn't a total disaster on that end. Those numbers Dane showed for Teague were pretty bad...